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Capitalism fuels imperialism, and fascism.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
Capitalism fuels everything because capitalism is the system where people consistently generate a surplus. The problem is social norms that permit fascist / imperialist /socialist systems to expropriate the value produced by capitalism.
- whydoibother 6y ago
  Capitalism doesn't fuel everything. People do things for lots of reasons outside of money or generating surplus. The problem isn't social norms. The problem is untethered capitalism allows concentrations of wealth and power with no check on it. Those capitalists then stoke fascism to retain power once material conditions have decayed enough due to that concentration of wealth.
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    > People do things for lots of reasons outside of money or generating surplus. They are able to choose to do those things because capitalism has created massive surpluses that allow people to survive on a relatively small amount of labor. This creates a surplus that can be directed towards leisure or given to the less fortunate. > Capitalism doesn't fuel everything. Its true there are a handful of susbsistence level societies that do not rely on capitalism for anything but they are in danger of being assimilated and exterminated. [0] > The problem isn't social norms. The problem is untethered capitalism allows concentrations of wealth and power with no check on it. While I disagree with you that is an accurate statement of the facts; surely you can see that allowing concentrations of wealth is a social norm that you consider to be a problem. > Those capitalists then stoke fascism to retain power once material conditions have decayed enough due to that concentration of wealth. The material conditions that result from capitalism are widespread prosperity; conditions deteriorate when the oligarchs convince you to allow them to use the government to redistribute the wealth of the middle class. [0] https://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes https://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes
    - whydoibother 6y ago
      > They are able to choose to do those things because capitalism has created massive surpluses that allow people to survive on a relatively small amount of labor. This creates a surplus that can be directed towards leisure or given to the less fortunate. How many people work two plus jobs? How many have to do gig work to make ends meet? Capitalism has created massive surpluses and free time, for the capitalists. > Its true there are a handful of susbsistence level societies that do not rely on capitalism for anything but they are in danger of being assimilated and exterminated. By capitalists looking to exploit them. > While I disagree with you that is an accurate statement of the facts; surely you can see that allowing concentrations of wealth is a social norm that you consider to be a problem. No, it isn't a social norm. What definition of social norm are you even using here? It is a direct consequence of capitalism. > The material conditions that result from capitalism are widespread prosperity; conditions deteriorate when the oligarchs convince you to allow them to use the government to redistribute the wealth of the middle class. Half the globe lives in poverty. More and more in the US are living in poverty. Wages have stagnated while productivity has increased. There isn't widespread prosperity by any definition. You've been watching too much PragerU if you honestly believe this.
      - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
        > How many people work two plus jobs? How many have to do gig work to make ends meet? Capitalism has created massive surpluses and free time, for the capitalists. The US is not a capitalist country. > By capitalists looking to exploit them. By imperialists looking to exploit them. Under capitalism they would own their land. > No, it isn't a social norm. What definition of social norm are you even using here? It is a direct consequence of capitalism. Capitalism is a set of social norms, I’m using the same definition as sociologists and anthropologists. > Half the globe lives in poverty. More and more in the US are living in poverty. Wages have stagnated while productivity has increased. There isn't widespread prosperity by any definition. The increasing poverty is a direct result of social norms that inhibit free exchange on markets. Regardless, the level of prosperity is the highest its been in 10,000 years and if you think people are poor now, you should read a history book. > You've been watching too much PragerU if you honestly believe this. I suggest you widen your understanding of history rather than cast aspersions on the sources you believe others are relying upon.
  - nvoid 6y ago
    Okay so capitalism bad -- what alternative do you propose? Because as far as I can tell capitalism is the best we have. Think about what capitalism has brought us. More and more people on the planet are lifted out of poverty every year as a direct consequence of capitalism. Why did the colonials, when they arrived in west Africa, find they had basically done nothing for thousands of years? Because they didn't have capitalism in my eyes. Capitalism brought you the computer you are typing on.
    - whydoibother 6y ago
      I'm not here to propose alternatives. Merely to call out some worship of capitalism. Smarter people have written about alternatives. Maybe join the Marxist group at your school and you might learn some! > Why did the colonials, when they arrived in west Africa, find they had basically done nothing for thousands of years? This is so racist and imperialistic, really bad take. > Capitalism brought you the computer you are typing on. Soviets had computers too, ya know.

Capitalism fuels everything because capitalism is the system where people consistently generate a surplus. The problem is social norms that permit fascist / imperialist /socialist systems to expropriate the value produced by capitalism.

whydoibother 6y ago
Capitalism doesn't fuel everything. People do things for lots of reasons outside of money or generating surplus. The problem isn't social norms. The problem is untethered capitalism allows concentrations of wealth and power with no check on it. Those capitalists then stoke fascism to retain power once material conditions have decayed enough due to that concentration of wealth.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > People do things for lots of reasons outside of money or generating surplus. They are able to choose to do those things because capitalism has created massive surpluses that allow people to survive on a relatively small amount of labor. This creates a surplus that can be directed towards leisure or given to the less fortunate. > Capitalism doesn't fuel everything. Its true there are a handful of susbsistence level societies that do not rely on capitalism for anything but they are in danger of being assimilated and exterminated. [0] > The problem isn't social norms. The problem is untethered capitalism allows concentrations of wealth and power with no check on it. While I disagree with you that is an accurate statement of the facts; surely you can see that allowing concentrations of wealth is a social norm that you consider to be a problem. > Those capitalists then stoke fascism to retain power once material conditions have decayed enough due to that concentration of wealth. The material conditions that result from capitalism are widespread prosperity; conditions deteriorate when the oligarchs convince you to allow them to use the government to redistribute the wealth of the middle class. [0] https://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes https://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes
  - whydoibother 6y ago
    > They are able to choose to do those things because capitalism has created massive surpluses that allow people to survive on a relatively small amount of labor. This creates a surplus that can be directed towards leisure or given to the less fortunate. How many people work two plus jobs? How many have to do gig work to make ends meet? Capitalism has created massive surpluses and free time, for the capitalists. > Its true there are a handful of susbsistence level societies that do not rely on capitalism for anything but they are in danger of being assimilated and exterminated. By capitalists looking to exploit them. > While I disagree with you that is an accurate statement of the facts; surely you can see that allowing concentrations of wealth is a social norm that you consider to be a problem. No, it isn't a social norm. What definition of social norm are you even using here? It is a direct consequence of capitalism. > The material conditions that result from capitalism are widespread prosperity; conditions deteriorate when the oligarchs convince you to allow them to use the government to redistribute the wealth of the middle class. Half the globe lives in poverty. More and more in the US are living in poverty. Wages have stagnated while productivity has increased. There isn't widespread prosperity by any definition. You've been watching too much PragerU if you honestly believe this.
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      > How many people work two plus jobs? How many have to do gig work to make ends meet? Capitalism has created massive surpluses and free time, for the capitalists. The US is not a capitalist country. > By capitalists looking to exploit them. By imperialists looking to exploit them. Under capitalism they would own their land. > No, it isn't a social norm. What definition of social norm are you even using here? It is a direct consequence of capitalism. Capitalism is a set of social norms, I’m using the same definition as sociologists and anthropologists. > Half the globe lives in poverty. More and more in the US are living in poverty. Wages have stagnated while productivity has increased. There isn't widespread prosperity by any definition. The increasing poverty is a direct result of social norms that inhibit free exchange on markets. Regardless, the level of prosperity is the highest its been in 10,000 years and if you think people are poor now, you should read a history book. > You've been watching too much PragerU if you honestly believe this. I suggest you widen your understanding of history rather than cast aspersions on the sources you believe others are relying upon.
- nvoid 6y ago
  Okay so capitalism bad -- what alternative do you propose? Because as far as I can tell capitalism is the best we have. Think about what capitalism has brought us. More and more people on the planet are lifted out of poverty every year as a direct consequence of capitalism. Why did the colonials, when they arrived in west Africa, find they had basically done nothing for thousands of years? Because they didn't have capitalism in my eyes. Capitalism brought you the computer you are typing on.
  - whydoibother 6y ago
    I'm not here to propose alternatives. Merely to call out some worship of capitalism. Smarter people have written about alternatives. Maybe join the Marxist group at your school and you might learn some! > Why did the colonials, when they arrived in west Africa, find they had basically done nothing for thousands of years? This is so racist and imperialistic, really bad take. > Capitalism brought you the computer you are typing on. Soviets had computers too, ya know.