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Not sure I'm so keen on Python driving my car. I've looked through some of the code and I think for me to buy into the safety the quality of the code would need

Not sure I'm so keen on Python driving my car. I've looked through some of the code and I think for me to buy into the safety the quality of the code would need to be improved, well commented, and audited.

qbasic_forever 6y ago
Haha I just had a horrifying throught about troubleshooting broken virtualenv installs and deadlocked dependencies, while on the side of the road with a car that refuses to start.
- sosodev 6y ago
  That actually sounds like a software developer horror story. Like goosebumps for devs.
  - madamelic 6y ago
    The real Goosebumps for devs is cars willing to take driving inputs over their built-in networks from outside the car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  To be honest, the driver assist can be removed with a single connection, it just uses your car's automated parking system.
- tomcam 6y ago
  Username noted
wpietri 6y ago
It's not python I'm worried about here.
- azinman2 6y ago
  It’s probably the best engineered and most reliable part!
bri3d 6y ago
Plus, the actual driving model is a black box, so there's really not a lot here that's any more reassuring than any other black box lane-keep-assist system on the market, and there's been an active resistance to apply any form of rigor to the system or produce any actual test data from the Comma company for many years (with the argument being that the system is simply an augmented lane keeping system and is just a supplement to the driver etc. etc. and thus does not need to be held to any sort of standard of safety or compliance - where have we heard that one before?)
crazypython 6y ago
> Not sure I'm so keen on Python driving my car. It uses CPython, which is reference counted, letting them ensure predictable timing/hard real-time system.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > hard real-time system It's running on Android.
  - leesec 6y ago
    AFAIK, The safety controls are done in the Connector piece to the car, which uses C/C++.
  - gkop 6y ago
    You’re replying to a joke I think.
- teraflop 6y ago
  CPython includes both reference counting and a stop-the-world tracing garbage collector. You can turn off the GC -- and openpilot appears to do so[1] -- but the tradeoff is that any objects that are part of reference cycles will be leaked, and will not be deallocated until the program exits. Anybody want to place bets on how many of these dependencies[2] have been audited to determine whether they can create cyclic references? [1]: https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/common/realtime.py#L44-L47 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/common/real... [2]: https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/Pipfile https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/Pipfile

qbasic_forever 6y ago

Haha I just had a horrifying throught about troubleshooting broken virtualenv installs and deadlocked dependencies, while on the side of the road with a car that refuses to start.

sosodev 6y ago
That actually sounds like a software developer horror story. Like goosebumps for devs.
- madamelic 6y ago
  The real Goosebumps for devs is cars willing to take driving inputs over their built-in networks from outside the car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs
WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
To be honest, the driver assist can be removed with a single connection, it just uses your car's automated parking system.
tomcam 6y ago
Username noted

wpietri 6y ago

It's not python I'm worried about here.

azinman2 6y ago
It’s probably the best engineered and most reliable part!

bri3d 6y ago

Plus, the actual driving model is a black box, so there's really not a lot here that's any more reassuring than any other black box lane-keep-assist system on the market, and there's been an active resistance to apply any form of rigor to the system or produce any actual test data from the Comma company for many years (with the argument being that the system is simply an augmented lane keeping system and is just a supplement to the driver etc. etc. and thus does not need to be held to any sort of standard of safety or compliance - where have we heard that one before?)

crazypython 6y ago

> Not sure I'm so keen on Python driving my car. It uses CPython, which is reference counted, letting them ensure predictable timing/hard real-time system.

Judgmentality 6y ago
> hard real-time system It's running on Android.
- leesec 6y ago
  AFAIK, The safety controls are done in the Connector piece to the car, which uses C/C++.
- gkop 6y ago
  You’re replying to a joke I think.
teraflop 6y ago
CPython includes both reference counting and a stop-the-world tracing garbage collector. You can turn off the GC -- and openpilot appears to do so[1] -- but the tradeoff is that any objects that are part of reference cycles will be leaked, and will not be deallocated until the program exits. Anybody want to place bets on how many of these dependencies[2] have been audited to determine whether they can create cyclic references? [1]: https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/common/realtime.py#L44-L47 https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/common/real... [2]: https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/Pipfile https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/Pipfile