4 ms·

The US also has almost no sense or urgency (maybe more than the EU, but pretty bad). Examples: - modernas main bottleneck is filling. They applied weeks ago t

The US also has almost no sense or urgency (maybe more than the EU, but pretty bad). Examples: - modernas main bottleneck is filling. They applied weeks ago to fill the same bottles with 15 doses instead of 10. The FDA has still not approved it. - the us prioritizes second doses over first doses. This creates a ton of cascading issues, including the fact that many places are storing half the doses for 28 days. Many people have reported getting the same lot number for the second shot. - the FDA takes 3 weeks to schedule approval meetings (after having reviewed the data enough to believe an EUA is warranted). -the FDA hasn't approved Astrazeneca, one of the last countries to do so. -our prioritization system is a mess. It's really hard to figure out who is eligible. "Healthcare workers" (which was supposed to be the first group) is vague, so of course what happened is what you would expect. I know about 100 people personally who have gotten the vaccine as healthcare workers. Only 1 works with COVID patients. Most of the others have less contact with people than grocery store workers. They should have just done covid ward workers first (<1M people) then go by age only. Super easy to know who is eligible. Our local hospital sat on doses from late Dec to late Jan because they didn't know who to give them to. After sitting on them for almost 30 days, they realized if all the doses went bad it would be a scandal so they just gave it to everyone on the property first come first serve.

azinman2 6y ago
I think you’re making a lot of assumptions that FDA approval/disapprovals are slow due to a sense of urgency. I’d like to see evidence for that, I’d personally assume it’s quite the opposite— they’re trying to get it as right as they can before doing something at scale that can’t be easily undone. If 15 doses lead to issues compared to 10, then you jeopardize all those vaccines which are slow and difficult to make. You also give people false sense of hope and possibly either get lower effectiveness or build public distrust. These are tough balancing acts.
- zbrozek 6y ago
  It's really hard to grok why 15-vs-10 doses in a bottle should be a problem. Sure you've got the out-of-fridge time, but that hardly seems like an issue when the population is itching to get vaccinated.
  - mattzito 6y ago
    My understanding is that they wanted to validate that the additional needle insertions through the vial doesn't damage the seal enough to cause contamination.
    - zbrozek 6y ago
      Is the seal important if the vial is going to be fully used up ~now? Presumably the needle has to be clean regardless of whether the seal exists at all (e.g., it could be dirty inside the bore and the seal state would be irrelevant), so the seal's purpose is to prevent contamination from the environment when there is no needle present. That kind of contamination takes time to happen and more time to incubate, and if the open lifespan of the vial is only a few hours is that important? Seems like that minor uncertainty is a good trade for swifter execution.
      - azinman2 6y ago
        I don’t know much about this issue, but from your comments it sounds like you don’t either. I’m not trying to be mean, but considering it wasn’t an automatic approval from the FDA that would suggest there’s legitimate concern to at least investigate. Be wary of Dunning-Kruger effect, especially when we’re talking about the healthcare of every person on Earth (the ideal scope of these vaccines).
        zbrozek 6y ago
        This is a hollow appeal to authority (the FDA is infallible) mixed with an appeal to emotion (fear of death) with no attempt to provide concrete information or to present thinking towards a conclusion.
bushbaba 6y ago
The us has 330 million people. Israel has roughly 10. Their is a real supply shortage. Israel Can and did secure enough vaccines for all its people. The us cannot, there’s not enough supply. Because of the lack of supply the us has been focusing its efforts on using the supply it has to go to the groups most likely to face complications from covid, and the folks supporting said group. The US is leading the world when it comes to total vaccines given. As for the second shot prioritization. The feds screwed up distribution with there being no strategic reserve. What you have already is what you’ll have. Anything else is not gaurenteed.
johnisgood 6y ago
According to a study, the AstraZeneca one has about 22% efficacy or something. I cannot find the study right now. What did you read about it? 22 is a very low number, IMO.

azinman2 6y ago

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions that FDA approval/disapprovals are slow due to a sense of urgency. I’d like to see evidence for that, I’d personally assume it’s quite the opposite— they’re trying to get it as right as they can before doing something at scale that can’t be easily undone. If 15 doses lead to issues compared to 10, then you jeopardize all those vaccines which are slow and difficult to make. You also give people false sense of hope and possibly either get lower effectiveness or build public distrust. These are tough balancing acts.

zbrozek 6y ago
It's really hard to grok why 15-vs-10 doses in a bottle should be a problem. Sure you've got the out-of-fridge time, but that hardly seems like an issue when the population is itching to get vaccinated.
- mattzito 6y ago
  My understanding is that they wanted to validate that the additional needle insertions through the vial doesn't damage the seal enough to cause contamination.
  - zbrozek 6y ago
    Is the seal important if the vial is going to be fully used up ~now? Presumably the needle has to be clean regardless of whether the seal exists at all (e.g., it could be dirty inside the bore and the seal state would be irrelevant), so the seal's purpose is to prevent contamination from the environment when there is no needle present. That kind of contamination takes time to happen and more time to incubate, and if the open lifespan of the vial is only a few hours is that important? Seems like that minor uncertainty is a good trade for swifter execution.
    - azinman2 6y ago
      I don’t know much about this issue, but from your comments it sounds like you don’t either. I’m not trying to be mean, but considering it wasn’t an automatic approval from the FDA that would suggest there’s legitimate concern to at least investigate. Be wary of Dunning-Kruger effect, especially when we’re talking about the healthcare of every person on Earth (the ideal scope of these vaccines).
      - zbrozek 6y ago
        This is a hollow appeal to authority (the FDA is infallible) mixed with an appeal to emotion (fear of death) with no attempt to provide concrete information or to present thinking towards a conclusion.

bushbaba 6y ago

The us has 330 million people. Israel has roughly 10. Their is a real supply shortage. Israel Can and did secure enough vaccines for all its people. The us cannot, there’s not enough supply. Because of the lack of supply the us has been focusing its efforts on using the supply it has to go to the groups most likely to face complications from covid, and the folks supporting said group. The US is leading the world when it comes to total vaccines given. As for the second shot prioritization. The feds screwed up distribution with there being no strategic reserve. What you have already is what you’ll have. Anything else is not gaurenteed.

johnisgood 6y ago

According to a study, the AstraZeneca one has about 22% efficacy or something. I cannot find the study right now. What did you read about it? 22 is a very low number, IMO.