4 ms·

This guy is from the Midwest and has lived in SF for four years. Imagine reading a NY Times article about someone moving to New York, complaining, and leaving.

This guy is from the Midwest and has lived in SF for four years. Imagine reading a NY Times article about someone moving to New York, complaining, and leaving. Who cares? Nobody is forcing this guy to buy a $17 salad either.

lightgreen 6y ago
> Imagine reading a NY Times article about someone moving to New York, complaining, and leaving. Who cares? I care. Sometimes I consider moving to other places, and these personal experiences of people living in different places are much more helpful than very limited experiences of people never been outside of NY. Even if it is only one data point and the experience is very subjective: I'll read more, someone else will write how happy they are in NY, and I'll decide which opinion is more important to me. > Nobody is forcing this guy to buy a $17 salad either. People expect to eat in good cafes, buy quality foods and generally expect standard of life higher than in some third-world countries. Of course it is possible to eat cheaper, but people want to enjoy their lives, while focusing on their work, not on food budgeting. In particular, just walk in a good looking cafe or a restaurant close to the home without reading their menu prices first.
- cammikebrown 6y ago
  The chances of randomly walking into any SF restaurant and paying $17 for a salad is very slim. If you’re worried about prices, take the two minutes to check a menu online first.
  - lightgreen 6y ago
    > The chances of randomly walking into any SF restaurant and paying $17 for a salad is very slim. If that's true, and SF prices are moderate, that's good. But that's very different from the original statement "Nobody is forcing this guy to buy a $17 salad either." > If you’re worried about prices, take the two minutes to check a menu online first. The point is that some people want to enjoy life, not worry about prices.
    - monocasa 6y ago
      You can find extremely overpriced food in every major city.
      - lightgreen 6y ago
        You can find extremely overpriced and extremely cheap food in every major city. Median salad price makes a city cheap or expensive. I suspect SF is more expensive than average by this metric, but I'm not sure, I didn't dine in SF much.
- moate 6y ago
  Without living in SF and having done no research on this whatsoever I can promise you that you could easily put together a list of restaurants in walking distance to wherever you live that do not include "17 dollar salads" and would allow you to "eat in good cafes". There are still places in Manhattan, Chicago, Atlanta, etc where you can do it, SF is no different. Now, if you want to judge a city only on it's higher priced places or whatever, that's on you. Food culture is a whole other thing, and how people want to play into it is their choice. That said, if you're trying to find steak dinners for 30 dollars(all in: tax, tip, and drink) in a major US city, I don't know how to help you. TL;dr- "17 dollar salads" aren't a problem unless you're trying to write a disparaging blog about a city you moved away from.
  - lightgreen 6y ago
    > There are still places in Manhattan, Chicago, Atlanta, etc where you can do it, SF is no different. The question is what's the median price of a salad. If median is 17, it is relatively expensive, even if it is possible to compile a list of cheaper cafes and restaurants. Or put it another way: if you have to check for restaurant prices, that city is too expensive for you, even cheaper places exist. > if you want to judge a city only on it's higher priced places or whatever, that's on you I'm not saying is bad. If you want to live on Manhattan, prepare to spend a lot on everything, from rent to salad. I think the author is saying: SF is expensive, and they cannot afford it. And that's good reason to leave. And that's good reason for other people to avoid moving to SF. > TL;dr- "17 dollar salads" aren't a problem unless you're trying to write a disparaging blog about a city you moved away from. Well, if for 17 dollars salad you could buy low crime and low poverty, that would be OK. But these things combined are enough reasons to write a blog. Anyway, not going to defend SF or criticise SF, just triggered by arrogant statement "Nobody is forcing this guy to buy a $17 salad", which is not far from "if you don't have bread, eat cake".
avs733 6y ago
That got to me...because I've lived/worked in multiple parts of CA as well as the Midwest. If your choice for a last meal in SFO before moving to the Midwest is an overpriced salad, that makes me less inclined to trust your judgement.
eznzt 6y ago
I understand all cities want to attract talent. If people can't stand NY, new yorkers should be interested in why.
ericbarrett 6y ago
I think New York actually has worse problems with crime and homelessness than SF. Except there, the police beat (quite literally) the destitute into the poorer neighborhoods where the Twitterati don’t live. Sadly, it works. P.S. I left NYC because I was assaulted in the subway (2018). Also, same year, there was a nodded-off man in nice clothes who probably took a bit too much after work, passed out on 14th St & 3rd Ave. I watched as over a hundred people walked past and sometimes over him. Finally I tried to wake him and, when he didn’t rouse, called an ambulance. Never seen such a cold populace.
- Redoubts 6y ago
  > I think New York actually has worse problems with crime and homelessness than SF And you’d be dead wrong. https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/public_safety/crime-selectcities.htm https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/public_safety/crime-sele... I don’t know how you could even think that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-crime-2017.amp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-cr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callahan_v._Carey?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callahan_v._Carey?wprov=sfti1 > I watched as over a hundred people walked past and sometimes over him. Have you ever walked through a mid-market BART station?
  - ericbarrett 6y ago
    I lived on 8th & Mission and dated somebody in the Loin for several years (protip: Hyde is better to walk than Leavenworth), so yes. My charitable contributions have in the majority gone toward SF homeless orgs. And I'm not afraid to talk to people. I really think you are conflating indigence and callousness. The people in the mid-Market BART stations have the support of other homeless in the community. The most disheveled are generally end-stage drug users. Their methadone clinic (if that's their poison) and many support shelters are within two blocks. If they're passed out and nodded off there it's because they chose to be incapacitated in a (very relatively) safe spot, where they're not exposed to the elements and relatively out of the way of the walking path. They probably know the other homeless, and people in a bad way will be checked on. Missionaries and street outreach folks will sometimes come by with food or clean blankets. Of course, they'll also have to deal with robbers and random assaults. Life on the street is tough. This guy was obviously not an end-stage drug user. He was dressed nicely, in a crisp white shirt and clean black pants. He was sprawled against a news stand on the corner, his legs squarely in the sidewalk, which as you know is not so wide in midtown Manhattan at 6:15pm. And he was utterly ignored. I know the numbers, and I too used to argue them, but the apathy and coldness in "safe" New York was undeniable.
4eor0 6y ago
As someone from the Midwest, it has no shortage of landlocked FOMO/YOLO types. SV is just this generations Gold Rush and Hollywood Star chasing excuse for moving to California.
tanseydavid 6y ago
>> This guy is from the Midwest and has lived in SF for four years. I have been in the Bay Area for 35 years and have worked in San Francisco for the past 9 years. "General Lawlessness" is an accurate if somewhat imprecise term for what San Francisco has become in my experience.

lightgreen 6y ago

> Imagine reading a NY Times article about someone moving to New York, complaining, and leaving. Who cares? I care. Sometimes I consider moving to other places, and these personal experiences of people living in different places are much more helpful than very limited experiences of people never been outside of NY. Even if it is only one data point and the experience is very subjective: I'll read more, someone else will write how happy they are in NY, and I'll decide which opinion is more important to me. > Nobody is forcing this guy to buy a $17 salad either. People expect to eat in good cafes, buy quality foods and generally expect standard of life higher than in some third-world countries. Of course it is possible to eat cheaper, but people want to enjoy their lives, while focusing on their work, not on food budgeting. In particular, just walk in a good looking cafe or a restaurant close to the home without reading their menu prices first.

cammikebrown 6y ago
The chances of randomly walking into any SF restaurant and paying $17 for a salad is very slim. If you’re worried about prices, take the two minutes to check a menu online first.
- lightgreen 6y ago
  > The chances of randomly walking into any SF restaurant and paying $17 for a salad is very slim. If that's true, and SF prices are moderate, that's good. But that's very different from the original statement "Nobody is forcing this guy to buy a $17 salad either." > If you’re worried about prices, take the two minutes to check a menu online first. The point is that some people want to enjoy life, not worry about prices.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    You can find extremely overpriced food in every major city.
    - lightgreen 6y ago
      You can find extremely overpriced and extremely cheap food in every major city. Median salad price makes a city cheap or expensive. I suspect SF is more expensive than average by this metric, but I'm not sure, I didn't dine in SF much.
moate 6y ago
Without living in SF and having done no research on this whatsoever I can promise you that you could easily put together a list of restaurants in walking distance to wherever you live that do not include "17 dollar salads" and would allow you to "eat in good cafes". There are still places in Manhattan, Chicago, Atlanta, etc where you can do it, SF is no different. Now, if you want to judge a city only on it's higher priced places or whatever, that's on you. Food culture is a whole other thing, and how people want to play into it is their choice. That said, if you're trying to find steak dinners for 30 dollars(all in: tax, tip, and drink) in a major US city, I don't know how to help you. TL;dr- "17 dollar salads" aren't a problem unless you're trying to write a disparaging blog about a city you moved away from.
- lightgreen 6y ago
  > There are still places in Manhattan, Chicago, Atlanta, etc where you can do it, SF is no different. The question is what's the median price of a salad. If median is 17, it is relatively expensive, even if it is possible to compile a list of cheaper cafes and restaurants. Or put it another way: if you have to check for restaurant prices, that city is too expensive for you, even cheaper places exist. > if you want to judge a city only on it's higher priced places or whatever, that's on you I'm not saying is bad. If you want to live on Manhattan, prepare to spend a lot on everything, from rent to salad. I think the author is saying: SF is expensive, and they cannot afford it. And that's good reason to leave. And that's good reason for other people to avoid moving to SF. > TL;dr- "17 dollar salads" aren't a problem unless you're trying to write a disparaging blog about a city you moved away from. Well, if for 17 dollars salad you could buy low crime and low poverty, that would be OK. But these things combined are enough reasons to write a blog. Anyway, not going to defend SF or criticise SF, just triggered by arrogant statement "Nobody is forcing this guy to buy a $17 salad", which is not far from "if you don't have bread, eat cake".

avs733 6y ago

That got to me...because I've lived/worked in multiple parts of CA as well as the Midwest. If your choice for a last meal in SFO before moving to the Midwest is an overpriced salad, that makes me less inclined to trust your judgement.

eznzt 6y ago

I understand all cities want to attract talent. If people can't stand NY, new yorkers should be interested in why.

ericbarrett 6y ago

I think New York actually has worse problems with crime and homelessness than SF. Except there, the police beat (quite literally) the destitute into the poorer neighborhoods where the Twitterati don’t live. Sadly, it works. P.S. I left NYC because I was assaulted in the subway (2018). Also, same year, there was a nodded-off man in nice clothes who probably took a bit too much after work, passed out on 14th St & 3rd Ave. I watched as over a hundred people walked past and sometimes over him. Finally I tried to wake him and, when he didn’t rouse, called an ambulance. Never seen such a cold populace.

Redoubts 6y ago
> I think New York actually has worse problems with crime and homelessness than SF And you’d be dead wrong. https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/public_safety/crime-selectcities.htm https://www.baruch.cuny.edu/nycdata/public_safety/crime-sele... I don’t know how you could even think that. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-crime-2017.amp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/27/nyregion/new-york-city-cr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callahan_v._Carey?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callahan_v._Carey?wprov=sfti1 > I watched as over a hundred people walked past and sometimes over him. Have you ever walked through a mid-market BART station?
- ericbarrett 6y ago
  I lived on 8th & Mission and dated somebody in the Loin for several years (protip: Hyde is better to walk than Leavenworth), so yes. My charitable contributions have in the majority gone toward SF homeless orgs. And I'm not afraid to talk to people. I really think you are conflating indigence and callousness. The people in the mid-Market BART stations have the support of other homeless in the community. The most disheveled are generally end-stage drug users. Their methadone clinic (if that's their poison) and many support shelters are within two blocks. If they're passed out and nodded off there it's because they chose to be incapacitated in a (very relatively) safe spot, where they're not exposed to the elements and relatively out of the way of the walking path. They probably know the other homeless, and people in a bad way will be checked on. Missionaries and street outreach folks will sometimes come by with food or clean blankets. Of course, they'll also have to deal with robbers and random assaults. Life on the street is tough. This guy was obviously not an end-stage drug user. He was dressed nicely, in a crisp white shirt and clean black pants. He was sprawled against a news stand on the corner, his legs squarely in the sidewalk, which as you know is not so wide in midtown Manhattan at 6:15pm. And he was utterly ignored. I know the numbers, and I too used to argue them, but the apathy and coldness in "safe" New York was undeniable.

4eor0 6y ago

As someone from the Midwest, it has no shortage of landlocked FOMO/YOLO types. SV is just this generations Gold Rush and Hollywood Star chasing excuse for moving to California.

tanseydavid 6y ago

>> This guy is from the Midwest and has lived in SF for four years. I have been in the Bay Area for 35 years and have worked in San Francisco for the past 9 years. "General Lawlessness" is an accurate if somewhat imprecise term for what San Francisco has become in my experience.