4 ms·

You know what doesn't suck? Having the option to run it when I want. I don't use it often but there have been several instances where I was able to access web

by watty 15y ago

You know what doesn't suck? Having the option to run it when I want. I don't use it often but there have been several instances where I was able to access web content that iOS users could not.

51Cards 15y ago
Agreed, not to mention that honestly I don't have a big problem with it. I have it load on demand and my device is old now, a Nexus One. I load and play flash games regulairly without issue. I keep hearing that Flash sucks on Android but I guess I have the one and only device where it works. I admit it does bog on occasion but I attribute that mostly to flash apps that were designed on and for desktop PC power. I also have run HTML 5 sites that bring my desktop computer and browser to its knees but I don't scream "HTML 5 sucks!" Perhaps my experience is unique.
nupark2 15y ago
Personally, I'd rather have the vendors kill off Flash, forcing the web to switch to alternatives, resulting in an environment where I never need (or want) to use Flash. I'm even willing to suffer slightly for this in the meantime -- even if that means you can access Flash (poorly) on an Android device, and I can't. Apple's position has already resulted in a fairly dramatic decrease in the number of flash-only websites, and I won't cry if I see it disappear entirely.
- tensor 15y ago
  The problem with this notion is that everyone is assuming that HTML5 + Javascript is going to be somehow drastically better than flash when it matures. I have not seen any technical arguments as for why this would be. I imagine that when all the inexperienced flash programmers move over to HTML5, we will end up with even slower HTML5 based animated ads and an even more fragmented browsing experience due to the lack of standards for video and audio. Worse, since these technologies can be more thoroughly integrated into websites, it will be far harder to block them.
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    Worse, since these technologies can be more thoroughly integrated into websites, it will be far harder to block them. Yeah, I'm looking forward to "Canvas Block".
    - MartinCron 15y ago
      Seems like something that could be done very easily with a browser extension or even a bookmarklet. Although canvas is awesome when used responsibly.
      - ugh 15y ago
        Wouldn’t canvas {display: none !important;} work?
  - msbarnett 15y ago
    >The problem with this notion is that everyone is assuming that HTML5 + Javascript is going to be somehow drastically better than flash when it matures. > I have not seen any technical arguments as for why this would be. That's because you're looking for a technical reason when the real reason lies in strategic interests and manpower concerns. If I'm Apple or HP or FoobarCorp, and I'm readying the brand new iWidget or TouchFob or FooPad, running my OS and browser, and relying on Flash for rich web content, if there are performance or stability issues, I have to punt them to Adobe and wait in line behind Flash for Windows, Flash for OS X, Flash for Android, and whatever other priorities Adobe has in front of me before they allocate manpower to my problems. But if rich web content is built in HTML5 + JS then I can send my engineers into our Webkit fork/Gecko engine/IE-wrapper/telnet-front-end to make things work right on our bizarro CPU or GPU or whatever it is that Adobe would have done a piss-poor job of optimizing for. Relying on a single choke point to deliver good performance to everyone has failed miserably. Independent, self-interested groups are more likely to do a better job of each optimizing HTML5 performance best for their own needs.
    - ThomPete 15y ago
      I fail to see how that is addressing the problem stated. The fact is that HTML5+JS is miles behind proper performance let alone cross browser compatibility.
GHFigs 15y ago
The tricky thing is that not having it at all doesn't suck, either. We've been seeing this same argument come and go for years now and the practical reality is that nobody cares that much either way. Flash has turned out to be neither a crippling omission for iOS or a giant coup for Android.

by watty 15y ago

You know what doesn't suck? Having the option to run it when I want. I don't use it often but there have been several instances where I was able to access web content that iOS users could not.

51Cards 15y ago

Agreed, not to mention that honestly I don't have a big problem with it. I have it load on demand and my device is old now, a Nexus One. I load and play flash games regulairly without issue. I keep hearing that Flash sucks on Android but I guess I have the one and only device where it works. I admit it does bog on occasion but I attribute that mostly to flash apps that were designed on and for desktop PC power. I also have run HTML 5 sites that bring my desktop computer and browser to its knees but I don't scream "HTML 5 sucks!" Perhaps my experience is unique.

nupark2 15y ago

Personally, I'd rather have the vendors kill off Flash, forcing the web to switch to alternatives, resulting in an environment where I never need (or want) to use Flash. I'm even willing to suffer slightly for this in the meantime -- even if that means you can access Flash (poorly) on an Android device, and I can't. Apple's position has already resulted in a fairly dramatic decrease in the number of flash-only websites, and I won't cry if I see it disappear entirely.

tensor 15y ago
The problem with this notion is that everyone is assuming that HTML5 + Javascript is going to be somehow drastically better than flash when it matures. I have not seen any technical arguments as for why this would be. I imagine that when all the inexperienced flash programmers move over to HTML5, we will end up with even slower HTML5 based animated ads and an even more fragmented browsing experience due to the lack of standards for video and audio. Worse, since these technologies can be more thoroughly integrated into websites, it will be far harder to block them.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  Worse, since these technologies can be more thoroughly integrated into websites, it will be far harder to block them. Yeah, I'm looking forward to "Canvas Block".
  - MartinCron 15y ago
    Seems like something that could be done very easily with a browser extension or even a bookmarklet. Although canvas is awesome when used responsibly.
    - ugh 15y ago
      Wouldn’t canvas {display: none !important;} work?
- msbarnett 15y ago
  >The problem with this notion is that everyone is assuming that HTML5 + Javascript is going to be somehow drastically better than flash when it matures. > I have not seen any technical arguments as for why this would be. That's because you're looking for a technical reason when the real reason lies in strategic interests and manpower concerns. If I'm Apple or HP or FoobarCorp, and I'm readying the brand new iWidget or TouchFob or FooPad, running my OS and browser, and relying on Flash for rich web content, if there are performance or stability issues, I have to punt them to Adobe and wait in line behind Flash for Windows, Flash for OS X, Flash for Android, and whatever other priorities Adobe has in front of me before they allocate manpower to my problems. But if rich web content is built in HTML5 + JS then I can send my engineers into our Webkit fork/Gecko engine/IE-wrapper/telnet-front-end to make things work right on our bizarro CPU or GPU or whatever it is that Adobe would have done a piss-poor job of optimizing for. Relying on a single choke point to deliver good performance to everyone has failed miserably. Independent, self-interested groups are more likely to do a better job of each optimizing HTML5 performance best for their own needs.
  - ThomPete 15y ago
    I fail to see how that is addressing the problem stated. The fact is that HTML5+JS is miles behind proper performance let alone cross browser compatibility.

GHFigs 15y ago

The tricky thing is that not having it at all doesn't suck, either. We've been seeing this same argument come and go for years now and the practical reality is that nobody cares that much either way. Flash has turned out to be neither a crippling omission for iOS or a giant coup for Android.