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This is such a silly counter argument. First of all, countries secure energy because people want energy. Even in a world where we use Bitcoin, people are still

This is such a silly counter argument. First of all, countries secure energy because people want energy. Even in a world where we use Bitcoin, people are still going to want HVAC, cars, cell phones, and all the other things that we use/buy that consume energy and damage the environment. The idea that a country will magically stop wanting oil because it's using Bitcoin is just laughable. Second, Bitcoin uses a ton of energy by design. It's literally built to create a competition between miners for hashing power in order to prevent 51% attacks. This structure is why increased hashing efficiency hasn't reduced Bitcoin's energy usage, it only results in spending the same amount of electricity on new hardware rather than old. A country that runs on Bitcoin will need a bit more energy as a fiat country, because maintaining sufficient hashing power will suddenly become a strategic problem. Up until today the risk of a 51% attack on Bitcoin is a private concern; only the miners and those involved in Bitcoin are concerned about it. But if a country used BTC as its main currency, suddenly that is a strategic problem. Does anyone honestly think that the USA wouldn't use its military to secure oil in order to hedge off a 51% attack on its entire financial system? Honestly, it would be dereliction of duty to not do that, given that scenario.

viklove 6y ago
This take is like reacting to the Ford Model T by saying how much energy it uses, how you can't access fuel to put in it, etc. BTC isn't the end-all crypto solution. It's the first attempt. It will continue to evolve and mature into something better like a Ford Fiat you can buy today. I don't really care about the USA, and I want to be in control of my own money. Maybe from your perspective of being able to control the citizens of a country, USD is better. But from my perspective of protecting my own interests, BTC is a compelling solution.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
solosoyokaze 6y ago
You have the cause and effect reversed. One of the reasons I want to move from USD to crypto is because I don't want to invade countries for their oil. I'd rather my currency not be tied to imperialistic warmongering.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I’m asserting that a country that used Bitcoin would still warmonger for oil.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    I'm asserting that you can't have a currency independent of a country without crypto. It's a prerequisite to defunding warmongering countries.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      One of the more confusing things about crypto is how many magical wishes get attached to it. It’s never actually explained why crypto will magically solve the problems listed, merely asserted that it would be so. There’s no reason that Bitcoin would magically eliminate the need for armies and oil consumption, at best it might change who has the armies, but not their presence. The funny thing is that we know that neither fiat currency nor oil is necessary for empire building or warmongering, because both fiat currencies and large scale oil consumption came out after the greatest period of imperialism and colony building that humanity has ever seen. The idea that replacing something that’s been around for ~50 years will solve a Millenia long problem of humanity’s is just funny.
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
        > The idea that replacing something that’s been around for ~50 years will solve a Millenia long problem of humanity’s is just funny. Is it? Communicating over distance was a problem we've had for millenia (or much longer) and it's now solved. Technology is amazing and we hit an inflection point last century. We're essentially already living in a post-humanity world, and crypto is the currency to match.
        ashtonkem 6y ago
        > Is it? Communicating over distance was a problem we've had for millenia (or much longer) and it's now solved. There's a reason why I say that bitcoin fans participate in magical thinking, and this is a prime example. So the argument goes that because we've solved communication, bitcoin is supposed to solve war ... how again? There's not even a fig leaf of an argument here, only a blunt assertion that because we've solved other problems, therefore your preferred technology will solve other issues. Maybe one day we'll solve war. But the burden of proof is on you to argue that your specific thing will solve that issue. And you're not even really trying. > We're essentially already living in a post-humanity world, and crypto is the currency to match. Lol, what? This is the intro to a cyberpunk novel, not an actual argument with testable claims. What the heck does "post-humanity" even freaking mean? As an actual human being living in this society, I'd argue that any claims that I'm "post" are objectively wrong. This is always the issue with any sort of enthusiast; your enthusiasm does not scale. Just because you're really excited about a thing doesn't mean that anyone else will be; you have to actually find things that other people want and connect your interest to them persuasively (blunt assertions don't really work). "We're already living in a post-humanity world, and crypto is the currency to match" is the kind of thing that'll get you plaudits on crypto sub-forums, and worried looks from everyone else who has no <explicative deleted> idea what you're going on about.

viklove 6y ago

This take is like reacting to the Ford Model T by saying how much energy it uses, how you can't access fuel to put in it, etc. BTC isn't the end-all crypto solution. It's the first attempt. It will continue to evolve and mature into something better like a Ford Fiat you can buy today. I don't really care about the USA, and I want to be in control of my own money. Maybe from your perspective of being able to control the citizens of a country, USD is better. But from my perspective of protecting my own interests, BTC is a compelling solution.

deleted 6y ago
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solosoyokaze 6y ago

You have the cause and effect reversed. One of the reasons I want to move from USD to crypto is because I don't want to invade countries for their oil. I'd rather my currency not be tied to imperialistic warmongering.

ashtonkem 6y ago
I’m asserting that a country that used Bitcoin would still warmonger for oil.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  I'm asserting that you can't have a currency independent of a country without crypto. It's a prerequisite to defunding warmongering countries.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    One of the more confusing things about crypto is how many magical wishes get attached to it. It’s never actually explained why crypto will magically solve the problems listed, merely asserted that it would be so. There’s no reason that Bitcoin would magically eliminate the need for armies and oil consumption, at best it might change who has the armies, but not their presence. The funny thing is that we know that neither fiat currency nor oil is necessary for empire building or warmongering, because both fiat currencies and large scale oil consumption came out after the greatest period of imperialism and colony building that humanity has ever seen. The idea that replacing something that’s been around for ~50 years will solve a Millenia long problem of humanity’s is just funny.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      > The idea that replacing something that’s been around for ~50 years will solve a Millenia long problem of humanity’s is just funny. Is it? Communicating over distance was a problem we've had for millenia (or much longer) and it's now solved. Technology is amazing and we hit an inflection point last century. We're essentially already living in a post-humanity world, and crypto is the currency to match.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        > Is it? Communicating over distance was a problem we've had for millenia (or much longer) and it's now solved. There's a reason why I say that bitcoin fans participate in magical thinking, and this is a prime example. So the argument goes that because we've solved communication, bitcoin is supposed to solve war ... how again? There's not even a fig leaf of an argument here, only a blunt assertion that because we've solved other problems, therefore your preferred technology will solve other issues. Maybe one day we'll solve war. But the burden of proof is on you to argue that your specific thing will solve that issue. And you're not even really trying. > We're essentially already living in a post-humanity world, and crypto is the currency to match. Lol, what? This is the intro to a cyberpunk novel, not an actual argument with testable claims. What the heck does "post-humanity" even freaking mean? As an actual human being living in this society, I'd argue that any claims that I'm "post" are objectively wrong. This is always the issue with any sort of enthusiast; your enthusiasm does not scale. Just because you're really excited about a thing doesn't mean that anyone else will be; you have to actually find things that other people want and connect your interest to them persuasively (blunt assertions don't really work). "We're already living in a post-humanity world, and crypto is the currency to match" is the kind of thing that'll get you plaudits on crypto sub-forums, and worried looks from everyone else who has no <explicative deleted> idea what you're going on about.