5 ms·

You really also need to include the entire military budget (and eco damage) as that's what props up the state, which backs the fiat.

analog31 6y ago
The military budget also props up the energy supply for bitcoin mining.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Bitcoin can be mined with any available resource, even by hand (although that's clearly not ideal).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - minitoar 6y ago
    How many people would use Bitcoin in this scenario? I reckon so few as to render it worthless. Ergo, Bitcoin requires the same expensive infrastructure as our fiat banking.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      "This scenario" being the complete disbanding of the US military? I imagine everyone would be using crypto at that point since there would be no USD.
      - deeeeplearning 6y ago
        Yay I can't wait for a trip to the grocery store to take 12 hours because every transaction takes 20 minutes. lol. This is just pure bitcoin hype, there are far better coins to use if you are actually interested in them as currency.
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
        I don't see Bitcoin as currency, it's a store of value. You're correct that there are better coins for currency.
        deeeeplearning 6y ago
        Edit: Could have sworn your comment said BTC and not crypto?
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
        BTC is the foundation of crypto, but other coins play an important role (i.e. high volume transactions). BTC is the value that powers the alt-coins.
        tor11 6y ago
        > trip to the grocery store try sending money to someone in north korea. how many hours does that take? > actually interested in them as currency it is still a currency.
        africanboy 6y ago
        > try sending money to someone in north korea North Korea leader has an army of hackers trained to steal bitcoins and uses them to launder money... probably not the best example
        deeeeplearning 6y ago
        >try sending money to someone in north korea. how many hours does that take? Thats the best defense for Btc you have? >it is still a currency. The only people consistently using BTC as currency are drug dealers or drug buyers.
        tor12 6y ago
        > Thats the best defense for Btc you have? it is the most obvious use case that is superior to everything currently in use. > The only people consistently using BTC as currency are drug dealers or drug buyers. no. but even if true, does that make it less of a currency?
      - minitoar 6y ago
        No, “this scenario” being the one you described in the comment I was responding to: there is no power and people are mining Bitcoin by hand.
ashtonkem 6y ago
This is such a silly counter argument. First of all, countries secure energy because people want energy. Even in a world where we use Bitcoin, people are still going to want HVAC, cars, cell phones, and all the other things that we use/buy that consume energy and damage the environment. The idea that a country will magically stop wanting oil because it's using Bitcoin is just laughable. Second, Bitcoin uses a ton of energy by design. It's literally built to create a competition between miners for hashing power in order to prevent 51% attacks. This structure is why increased hashing efficiency hasn't reduced Bitcoin's energy usage, it only results in spending the same amount of electricity on new hardware rather than old. A country that runs on Bitcoin will need a bit more energy as a fiat country, because maintaining sufficient hashing power will suddenly become a strategic problem. Up until today the risk of a 51% attack on Bitcoin is a private concern; only the miners and those involved in Bitcoin are concerned about it. But if a country used BTC as its main currency, suddenly that is a strategic problem. Does anyone honestly think that the USA wouldn't use its military to secure oil in order to hedge off a 51% attack on its entire financial system? Honestly, it would be dereliction of duty to not do that, given that scenario.
- viklove 6y ago
  This take is like reacting to the Ford Model T by saying how much energy it uses, how you can't access fuel to put in it, etc. BTC isn't the end-all crypto solution. It's the first attempt. It will continue to evolve and mature into something better like a Ford Fiat you can buy today. I don't really care about the USA, and I want to be in control of my own money. Maybe from your perspective of being able to control the citizens of a country, USD is better. But from my perspective of protecting my own interests, BTC is a compelling solution.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  You have the cause and effect reversed. One of the reasons I want to move from USD to crypto is because I don't want to invade countries for their oil. I'd rather my currency not be tied to imperialistic warmongering.
the_local_host 6y ago
People wouldn't stop spending money on weapons in a Bitcoin world. If the global economy is dominated by a small number of people who got in on Bitcoin early, against a vast majority who are born with no Bitcoin and no way to get it except from those who already have it, strife can be expected. To the extent that inequality, competition, and unfairness create tension, that tension doesn't go away just because there's a different set of people at the top.
UncleMeat 6y ago
If we all used BTC, there'd be no war and no standing armies? Come on. Of all of the cryptocurrency-utopia claims that exist, this is surely the least believable.

analog31 6y ago

The military budget also props up the energy supply for bitcoin mining.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
Bitcoin can be mined with any available resource, even by hand (although that's clearly not ideal).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- minitoar 6y ago
  How many people would use Bitcoin in this scenario? I reckon so few as to render it worthless. Ergo, Bitcoin requires the same expensive infrastructure as our fiat banking.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    "This scenario" being the complete disbanding of the US military? I imagine everyone would be using crypto at that point since there would be no USD.
    - deeeeplearning 6y ago
      Yay I can't wait for a trip to the grocery store to take 12 hours because every transaction takes 20 minutes. lol. This is just pure bitcoin hype, there are far better coins to use if you are actually interested in them as currency.
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
        I don't see Bitcoin as currency, it's a store of value. You're correct that there are better coins for currency.
        deeeeplearning 6y ago
        Edit: Could have sworn your comment said BTC and not crypto?
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
        BTC is the foundation of crypto, but other coins play an important role (i.e. high volume transactions). BTC is the value that powers the alt-coins.
      - tor11 6y ago
        > trip to the grocery store try sending money to someone in north korea. how many hours does that take? > actually interested in them as currency it is still a currency.
        africanboy 6y ago
        > try sending money to someone in north korea North Korea leader has an army of hackers trained to steal bitcoins and uses them to launder money... probably not the best example
        deeeeplearning 6y ago
        >try sending money to someone in north korea. how many hours does that take? Thats the best defense for Btc you have? >it is still a currency. The only people consistently using BTC as currency are drug dealers or drug buyers.
        tor12 6y ago
        > Thats the best defense for Btc you have? it is the most obvious use case that is superior to everything currently in use. > The only people consistently using BTC as currency are drug dealers or drug buyers. no. but even if true, does that make it less of a currency?
    - minitoar 6y ago
      No, “this scenario” being the one you described in the comment I was responding to: there is no power and people are mining Bitcoin by hand.

ashtonkem 6y ago

This is such a silly counter argument. First of all, countries secure energy because people want energy. Even in a world where we use Bitcoin, people are still going to want HVAC, cars, cell phones, and all the other things that we use/buy that consume energy and damage the environment. The idea that a country will magically stop wanting oil because it's using Bitcoin is just laughable. Second, Bitcoin uses a ton of energy by design. It's literally built to create a competition between miners for hashing power in order to prevent 51% attacks. This structure is why increased hashing efficiency hasn't reduced Bitcoin's energy usage, it only results in spending the same amount of electricity on new hardware rather than old. A country that runs on Bitcoin will need a bit more energy as a fiat country, because maintaining sufficient hashing power will suddenly become a strategic problem. Up until today the risk of a 51% attack on Bitcoin is a private concern; only the miners and those involved in Bitcoin are concerned about it. But if a country used BTC as its main currency, suddenly that is a strategic problem. Does anyone honestly think that the USA wouldn't use its military to secure oil in order to hedge off a 51% attack on its entire financial system? Honestly, it would be dereliction of duty to not do that, given that scenario.

viklove 6y ago
This take is like reacting to the Ford Model T by saying how much energy it uses, how you can't access fuel to put in it, etc. BTC isn't the end-all crypto solution. It's the first attempt. It will continue to evolve and mature into something better like a Ford Fiat you can buy today. I don't really care about the USA, and I want to be in control of my own money. Maybe from your perspective of being able to control the citizens of a country, USD is better. But from my perspective of protecting my own interests, BTC is a compelling solution.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
solosoyokaze 6y ago
You have the cause and effect reversed. One of the reasons I want to move from USD to crypto is because I don't want to invade countries for their oil. I'd rather my currency not be tied to imperialistic warmongering.

the_local_host 6y ago

People wouldn't stop spending money on weapons in a Bitcoin world. If the global economy is dominated by a small number of people who got in on Bitcoin early, against a vast majority who are born with no Bitcoin and no way to get it except from those who already have it, strife can be expected. To the extent that inequality, competition, and unfairness create tension, that tension doesn't go away just because there's a different set of people at the top.

UncleMeat 6y ago

If we all used BTC, there'd be no war and no standing armies? Come on. Of all of the cryptocurrency-utopia claims that exist, this is surely the least believable.