4 ms·

"the American system still retains a bit of the magic we were once taught to expect" Serious question for users from US: What "magic" are ye taught to expect?

"the American system still retains a bit of the magic we were once taught to expect" Serious question for users from US: What "magic" are ye taught to expect? And where / when are ye taught to expect it?

Miner49er 6y ago
American schools heavily teach American exceptionalism, at least in my experience. Basically that our values make us special and better then everyone else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
- everyone 6y ago
  Seriously!?!? omg lol!! .... Hmm, actually after a tiny bit of rumination on that new information, that actually could explain a lot.
  - Miner49er 6y ago
    Don't most countries teach that their kids they are good country? It's basically just patriotism.
    - the-dude 6y ago
      Well, Zhe Germans, not so much.
    - jstanley 6y ago
      No, most countries don't teach patriotism in schools.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >Don't most countries teach that their kids they are good country? Not such level BS. The teach the country's history, they try to portray most wars/disputes etc. from the perspective of the country (though most also allow for balance), and so on. Few, if any, countries tells students that they're some unique exception upon the world, or have some burdern to lead the others. Colonial Britain and WWII-era Germany comes to mind.
      - true_religion 6y ago
        Also, Ghana, Nigeria, and Senegal to name a few other countries with a chip on their shoulder. Prideful counties are hardly unheard of in the world.
        coldtea 6y ago
        Yeah, was thinking of European countries, that I mostly know of.
  - JohnBooty 6y ago
    Yeah, this is pretty standard in the USA. Or at least it was when I went to school. I was born in the 1970s... I imagine it has changed some. Good news is that this BS is generally NOT taught at a college/university level. Which explains a lot about our country... and our divide... as well. A large percentage of the country has been exposed to education that does not teach such ridiculous beliefs. So we have "educated" folks with a slightly more realistic view of the world. And then "everybody else" who has only been taught that America is a magical place.
    - ymbeld 6y ago
      The great divide: the ones who think America is Great, and the ones who merely think that their own tertiary education group is Great.
      - everyone 6y ago
        My god what an unconstructive stance. I have just now learned about this idea of US exceptionalism, and have just read the linked wikipedia article about it. Apparently it is not supposed to merely be an ineffable magical quality. It is supposed to have some basis in reality. So it can be easily dispelled with a little bit of data. For someone with 3rd level education it should be trivial. Also, purely anecdotal, but several US HN users have responded to me saying they were actually taught this nonsense in their 1st and 2nd level school education.
        ymbeld 6y ago
        I haven’t published a stance.
      - JohnBooty 6y ago
        and the ones who merely think that their own tertiary education group is Great. I think you managed to combine strawman and false dichotomy fallacies there. Kudos, I suppose. There are plenty of folks with postsecondary education who think highly of America, and I'm one of them. It is highly flawed, and also a pretty good place. We get a lot of things right. Let me be crystal clear: what I'm opposed to is simplistic, jingoistic, one-sided "America is the greatest thing ever" fantasies of American exceptionalism. This is how my primary and secondary education, in a fairly decent public school district in the 80s and 90s, generally described America. And that's mild, as far as "American exceptionalism" goes. My dad's wife is a member of a radical Christian sect. On a regular basis, she mails me glossy pamphlets and brochures describing how America's greatness is literally foretold in the Bible. There are significant numbers of Americans who believe this wholeheartedly. There is a clear divide between such delusional fantasies, and a more nuanced view of America. But that doesn't mean all of us on the rational side of the divide think it's an awful place or something like that. As for me, I don't even have a postsecondary degree. Just some postsecondary education. Not exactly ivory tower stuff. But some of it was eye opening. Ideally our public primary/secondary schools would just teach America's flaws as well as its strengths.
- MichaelApproved 6y ago
  In reality, American strength came from protection of two oceans, peaceful neighboring countries, and a rich amount of natural resources. Oil, timber, gas, sun, wind. America has plenty. There was also the massive boom that WW2 gave the American economy. While other countries were rebuilding their infrastructure, America was able to capture markets with the revved up manufacturing that was built during the war.
old_hat 6y ago
In school I was taught, "You're so lucky to have been born here. We're the best country in the world at everything." I'm not exaggerating, and we were told to expect to be the best all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism#:~:text=American%20exceptionalism%20is%20the%20theory,American%20ideology%2C%20%22Americanism%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism#:~:tex....
- throwawayy1112 6y ago
  > You're so lucky to have been born here. This is right, especially given much of the world is in abject poverty & starvation.
coldtea 6y ago
They used to compare the state of the US after Europe was ravaged for a century by WWI and WWII (both of which had minimal impact on the US), and thought their shit doesn't stink. (Forgotting that in the 18th century most of the US was still a provincial backwater - some states basically mostly wild land -- and Europe had far more modern and beautiful cities and better infrastructure). That, plus the heritage of some religious inspired BS from the earlier Americans (religious zealots from Europe), of the place being some beacon for the world, having a "manifest destiny", and so on...
ymbeld 6y ago
I don’t think this statement by the author makes much sense in this context. The author states later that “the U.S. system of public-private partnership has proven its worth once again”, but one is not taught to expect much at all from the public sector in America; one is on the contrary told that the government can only make mistakes and that the private sector is more efficient and fault-tolerant. If anything this “public-private partnership” goes against what Americans have been taught for the last half-century.

Miner49er 6y ago

American schools heavily teach American exceptionalism, at least in my experience. Basically that our values make us special and better then everyone else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism

everyone 6y ago
Seriously!?!? omg lol!! .... Hmm, actually after a tiny bit of rumination on that new information, that actually could explain a lot.
- Miner49er 6y ago
  Don't most countries teach that their kids they are good country? It's basically just patriotism.
  - the-dude 6y ago
    Well, Zhe Germans, not so much.
  - jstanley 6y ago
    No, most countries don't teach patriotism in schools.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Don't most countries teach that their kids they are good country? Not such level BS. The teach the country's history, they try to portray most wars/disputes etc. from the perspective of the country (though most also allow for balance), and so on. Few, if any, countries tells students that they're some unique exception upon the world, or have some burdern to lead the others. Colonial Britain and WWII-era Germany comes to mind.
    - true_religion 6y ago
      Also, Ghana, Nigeria, and Senegal to name a few other countries with a chip on their shoulder. Prideful counties are hardly unheard of in the world.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        Yeah, was thinking of European countries, that I mostly know of.
- JohnBooty 6y ago
  Yeah, this is pretty standard in the USA. Or at least it was when I went to school. I was born in the 1970s... I imagine it has changed some. Good news is that this BS is generally NOT taught at a college/university level. Which explains a lot about our country... and our divide... as well. A large percentage of the country has been exposed to education that does not teach such ridiculous beliefs. So we have "educated" folks with a slightly more realistic view of the world. And then "everybody else" who has only been taught that America is a magical place.
  - ymbeld 6y ago
    The great divide: the ones who think America is Great, and the ones who merely think that their own tertiary education group is Great.
    - everyone 6y ago
      My god what an unconstructive stance. I have just now learned about this idea of US exceptionalism, and have just read the linked wikipedia article about it. Apparently it is not supposed to merely be an ineffable magical quality. It is supposed to have some basis in reality. So it can be easily dispelled with a little bit of data. For someone with 3rd level education it should be trivial. Also, purely anecdotal, but several US HN users have responded to me saying they were actually taught this nonsense in their 1st and 2nd level school education.
      - ymbeld 6y ago
        I haven’t published a stance.
    - JohnBooty 6y ago
      and the ones who merely think that their own tertiary education group is Great. I think you managed to combine strawman and false dichotomy fallacies there. Kudos, I suppose. There are plenty of folks with postsecondary education who think highly of America, and I'm one of them. It is highly flawed, and also a pretty good place. We get a lot of things right. Let me be crystal clear: what I'm opposed to is simplistic, jingoistic, one-sided "America is the greatest thing ever" fantasies of American exceptionalism. This is how my primary and secondary education, in a fairly decent public school district in the 80s and 90s, generally described America. And that's mild, as far as "American exceptionalism" goes. My dad's wife is a member of a radical Christian sect. On a regular basis, she mails me glossy pamphlets and brochures describing how America's greatness is literally foretold in the Bible. There are significant numbers of Americans who believe this wholeheartedly. There is a clear divide between such delusional fantasies, and a more nuanced view of America. But that doesn't mean all of us on the rational side of the divide think it's an awful place or something like that. As for me, I don't even have a postsecondary degree. Just some postsecondary education. Not exactly ivory tower stuff. But some of it was eye opening. Ideally our public primary/secondary schools would just teach America's flaws as well as its strengths.
MichaelApproved 6y ago
In reality, American strength came from protection of two oceans, peaceful neighboring countries, and a rich amount of natural resources. Oil, timber, gas, sun, wind. America has plenty. There was also the massive boom that WW2 gave the American economy. While other countries were rebuilding their infrastructure, America was able to capture markets with the revved up manufacturing that was built during the war.

old_hat 6y ago

In school I was taught, "You're so lucky to have been born here. We're the best country in the world at everything." I'm not exaggerating, and we were told to expect to be the best all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism#:~:text=American%20exceptionalism%20is%20the%20theory,American%20ideology%2C%20%22Americanism%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism#:~:tex....

throwawayy1112 6y ago
> You're so lucky to have been born here. This is right, especially given much of the world is in abject poverty & starvation.

coldtea 6y ago

They used to compare the state of the US after Europe was ravaged for a century by WWI and WWII (both of which had minimal impact on the US), and thought their shit doesn't stink. (Forgotting that in the 18th century most of the US was still a provincial backwater - some states basically mostly wild land -- and Europe had far more modern and beautiful cities and better infrastructure). That, plus the heritage of some religious inspired BS from the earlier Americans (religious zealots from Europe), of the place being some beacon for the world, having a "manifest destiny", and so on...

ymbeld 6y ago

I don’t think this statement by the author makes much sense in this context. The author states later that “the U.S. system of public-private partnership has proven its worth once again”, but one is not taught to expect much at all from the public sector in America; one is on the contrary told that the government can only make mistakes and that the private sector is more efficient and fault-tolerant. If anything this “public-private partnership” goes against what Americans have been taught for the last half-century.