4 ms·

Good question. When you are commuting and need to be practical, you might prefer electric. But cycling for fun on a roadbike is about being outside, enjoying th

by mpol 6y ago

Good question. When you are commuting and need to be practical, you might prefer electric. But cycling for fun on a roadbike is about being outside, enjoying the surroundings, and putting your legs to work. It can make you feel alive and just give sheer joy putting your body to work and have your legs be the engine of your bicycle.

KozmoNau7 6y ago
You still do all of those things on an e-bike, all it does is provide assistance, which means you can go farther, spend more time outside and see more of the world around you. You can adjust or even completely turn off the assistance. There's an argument to be made for purism, but where do you draw the line? Do click shifters ruin the purism of cycling? The presence of multiple gears? Freewheeling hubs? Are clips, straps or clipless pedals just crutches for people with bad technique? Does the presence of a chain and gearing decouple you from the raw and pure connection to the wheel? Where does one draw the line?
- pmontra 6y ago
  I think there is a misunderstanding about why cyclists go biking for fun for 100+ km uphill, on roads or in the woods on Sunday mornings. The reason is that they like to pedal and stay fit. I do. Suppose we have cheap and light exoskeletons that people can wear and run for 100 km at 15 km/h on a single charge. Would that put an end to people running 5 km in 45 minutes with their own legs? I don't think so. I might buy an ebike when I'm older (and I mean well past 60) but why should I use one when I can do 150 km in a day for fun? If I'm in hurry I drive my car. Another use case for an ebike would be a long commute and I don't want to sweat on my way to work. It's not my case but I would consider a bike with a battery for that.
  - KozmoNau7 6y ago
    I absolutely understand the desire for doing things the same way as the professionals or imposing artificial limitations to push oneself harder. That and keeping fit is why I lift weights. Still, if keeping fit was the ultimate goal, everyone would be riding heavy old steel frames instead of chasing sub-1% efficiency gains ;-) There is a huge element of gear geekery involved and to an extent also some cargo culting. I know, I've been there myself for a bit. Now I ride a 3-speed stepover bike with a basket on the front, because trying to always go faster was going to get me maimed in traffic at some point.
    - dfgdghdf 6y ago
      The reason is that a light and stiff bike is much more fun to ride! An expensive road bike is optimizing for fun and performance. A heavy old steel bike is optimizing for cost and reliability. If you are riding for fitness then fun is important.
      - KozmoNau7 6y ago
        My counterpoint is that I have a lot more fun when riding my relaxed steel frame bike at a moderate speed, than I ever had when riding a road bike fast. That means I ride farther and for longer, but it's the kind of fun that cannot be quantified in hard numbers. I find the performance-chasing stressful, whether on a bike, in a car or in front of a PC, and we could all do with a bit less stress in our lives.
        scns 6y ago
        Shows that having fun is subjective.
      - exporectomy 6y ago
        But the point is, an electrically assisted bike is even more fun. Or if you don't like any extra assistance, tune the power to just compensate for the weight of a steel frame so it feels like a carbon-fiber bike but at lower cost. Why isn't that the most popular type of high-end recreation bike?
        KozmoNau7 6y ago
        You can tune so the acceleration feels like a lighter bike, but for braking and cornering, you're still going to feel the extra weight, there's no way to artificially lighten an object, you can't cheat mass and gravity, it's the same reason why a Tesla Roadster is a very different car from a Mazda MX-5 and the Mazda would be a fundamentally changed car if you made it electric. Still, for the vast majority of everyday cyclists, the "purity" of the experience doesn't matter, they want to get from A to B in a practical manner. They want to see things and do things, the bike ride is not a goal in itself. For the sports cyclist with aspirations based on their professional idols, they want to ride what the professionals ride, not a simulation. Personally I think the whole concept of trying to ape the professionals is a bit silly, which is why I don't do it anymore :-)
- michaelt 6y ago
  Well, a sport is inherently circumscribed by a set of rules. And those rules are often completely arbitrary - why is the basketball hoop that high? Why have a 100 meter sprint instead of 100 yards? But even though the rules are arbitrary, in order to be doing that sport, you have to be within the rules. When cycling a motor could certainly improve my power output. But as it's outside the rules of most cycling bodies' rules for competitions, I can't improve my times by putting a motor on my bike any more than I can lower the basketball basket to score more points. Of course, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with an e-bike - someone sprinting 70 meters is still running, even if they're not within the rules of the 100 meter sprint! And e-bikes are a fine option if you want to replace a car (for certain distances), haul a lot of weight on a cargo bike, as a general fitness activity, or to keep up with faster riders for social purposes.
deleted 6y ago
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by mpol 6y ago

KozmoNau7 6y ago

You still do all of those things on an e-bike, all it does is provide assistance, which means you can go farther, spend more time outside and see more of the world around you. You can adjust or even completely turn off the assistance. There's an argument to be made for purism, but where do you draw the line? Do click shifters ruin the purism of cycling? The presence of multiple gears? Freewheeling hubs? Are clips, straps or clipless pedals just crutches for people with bad technique? Does the presence of a chain and gearing decouple you from the raw and pure connection to the wheel? Where does one draw the line?

pmontra 6y ago
I think there is a misunderstanding about why cyclists go biking for fun for 100+ km uphill, on roads or in the woods on Sunday mornings. The reason is that they like to pedal and stay fit. I do. Suppose we have cheap and light exoskeletons that people can wear and run for 100 km at 15 km/h on a single charge. Would that put an end to people running 5 km in 45 minutes with their own legs? I don't think so. I might buy an ebike when I'm older (and I mean well past 60) but why should I use one when I can do 150 km in a day for fun? If I'm in hurry I drive my car. Another use case for an ebike would be a long commute and I don't want to sweat on my way to work. It's not my case but I would consider a bike with a battery for that.
- KozmoNau7 6y ago
  I absolutely understand the desire for doing things the same way as the professionals or imposing artificial limitations to push oneself harder. That and keeping fit is why I lift weights. Still, if keeping fit was the ultimate goal, everyone would be riding heavy old steel frames instead of chasing sub-1% efficiency gains ;-) There is a huge element of gear geekery involved and to an extent also some cargo culting. I know, I've been there myself for a bit. Now I ride a 3-speed stepover bike with a basket on the front, because trying to always go faster was going to get me maimed in traffic at some point.
  - dfgdghdf 6y ago
    The reason is that a light and stiff bike is much more fun to ride! An expensive road bike is optimizing for fun and performance. A heavy old steel bike is optimizing for cost and reliability. If you are riding for fitness then fun is important.
    - KozmoNau7 6y ago
      My counterpoint is that I have a lot more fun when riding my relaxed steel frame bike at a moderate speed, than I ever had when riding a road bike fast. That means I ride farther and for longer, but it's the kind of fun that cannot be quantified in hard numbers. I find the performance-chasing stressful, whether on a bike, in a car or in front of a PC, and we could all do with a bit less stress in our lives.
      - scns 6y ago
        Shows that having fun is subjective.
    - exporectomy 6y ago
      But the point is, an electrically assisted bike is even more fun. Or if you don't like any extra assistance, tune the power to just compensate for the weight of a steel frame so it feels like a carbon-fiber bike but at lower cost. Why isn't that the most popular type of high-end recreation bike?
      - KozmoNau7 6y ago
        You can tune so the acceleration feels like a lighter bike, but for braking and cornering, you're still going to feel the extra weight, there's no way to artificially lighten an object, you can't cheat mass and gravity, it's the same reason why a Tesla Roadster is a very different car from a Mazda MX-5 and the Mazda would be a fundamentally changed car if you made it electric. Still, for the vast majority of everyday cyclists, the "purity" of the experience doesn't matter, they want to get from A to B in a practical manner. They want to see things and do things, the bike ride is not a goal in itself. For the sports cyclist with aspirations based on their professional idols, they want to ride what the professionals ride, not a simulation. Personally I think the whole concept of trying to ape the professionals is a bit silly, which is why I don't do it anymore :-)
michaelt 6y ago
Well, a sport is inherently circumscribed by a set of rules. And those rules are often completely arbitrary - why is the basketball hoop that high? Why have a 100 meter sprint instead of 100 yards? But even though the rules are arbitrary, in order to be doing that sport, you have to be within the rules. When cycling a motor could certainly improve my power output. But as it's outside the rules of most cycling bodies' rules for competitions, I can't improve my times by putting a motor on my bike any more than I can lower the basketball basket to score more points. Of course, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with an e-bike - someone sprinting 70 meters is still running, even if they're not within the rules of the 100 meter sprint! And e-bikes are a fine option if you want to replace a car (for certain distances), haul a lot of weight on a cargo bike, as a general fitness activity, or to keep up with faster riders for social purposes.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]