6 ms·

Israel has many different population groups. The Haredi population is acting like covid doesn’t exist and has insanely high numbers of cases. I suspect that d

by jsharf 6y ago

Israel has many different population groups. The Haredi population is acting like covid doesn’t exist and has insanely high numbers of cases. I suspect that despite the vaccine working well on your everyday science-trusting Israeli, the Haredi population is throwing off the average significantly. Source: I have family there. Recently the police tried to enforce the lockdown Bnei Brak (a city with a lot of Haredis). The Haredi rioted against this, yelled “Nazis” at the police, and burned down a bus. https://youtu.be/hG8ly4_zOt0 https://youtu.be/hG8ly4_zOt0

marshmallow_12 6y ago
downtote. This is anti semitic. A fringe minority rioted. It's far too simplistic to say that covid is simply being ignored.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  why am i getting downvotes? The hareidim ignore lockdown because their way of life is more important to them even then some deaths. Difficult for an outsider to understand. As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. There will be a pushback (not that i agree). (and yes there could be more compliance, this is not the forum).
  - hef19898 6y ago
    IMHO the downvotes have two reasons: Calling the Haredim out on their behaviour is not anti-semitic. Complaining or commenting about downvotes is not regarded well on HN.
    - throwawayy1112 6y ago
      > Calling the Haredim out on their behaviour is not anti-semitic. I wonder if all the people who upvote this would take offense to the same statement applied to black people or whatever identity you want to swap in.
      - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > would take offense to the same statement applied to black people or whatever identity you want to swap in African Americans are not ignoring lockdown en masse. They are avoiding the vaccine, but that’s less problematic.
  - mola 6y ago
    Israeli here. Their way of life is not threatened by a vaccine nor by lockdown. No more than any other citizen of israel. Their leadership still has ghetto mentality and sees the state as their enemy, so they always choose to go against it while crying Nazis. It doesn't matter that these so called Nazis are jews themselves. This is the sort of mentality that 2000 years of diaspora creates. Their way of life is now defined by choosing to be the outcast, by wearing outcast uniform, by fearing and hating those that don't wear the uniform. Their leadership is just aweful.
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      you are just spewing out old zionist propoganda. Its all been said before. And the secular leadership hasn't exactly covered itself in glory. You are entering, what? Your fourth consecutive election? point to me a single jewish leader in israel who would compare the state to the nazis? Not one. And they love the secular the same as anyone. At worst they hate their ideology. If you cannot distinguish yourself from your ideology, then yes, they do hate you.
    - strulovich 6y ago
      Israeli here as well. The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old. Also, name calling authorities you don’t like is a not even a national sport, it’s a global one. There’s a lot of good arguments against them, but they require more nuance.
      - marshmallow_12 6y ago
        >The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old. They will argue that its actually 3500 years old. Non hareidi judaism started .250 years ago with the haskala.
      - helge9210 6y ago
        > The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old. I would say, less than 80 years old. In most normal countries this kind of behavior would be called "destructive totalitarian sect".
  - helge9210 6y ago
    > As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. This. I very much believe in vaccines in general and me and my whole family are vaccinated according to calendar, but getting injection of something that is still at phase 2 trials, created using technology never used before without information on long term effects is something else.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      All vaccines are properly approved in the EU. There are millions of people vaccinated world wide. I'd say the sample size is big enough to be sure. And long term effects take effect not years after the vaccination, the carry on that long. So any long term effects manifest within weeks and months. And so far there haven't been any. At least not beyond what other vaccines and medication has.
      - throwawayy1112 6y ago
        > So any long term effects manifest within weeks and months. So long-term effects should really be called short-term effects?
        hef19898 6y ago
        Long term because they don't go away. Not because they show up after months or years. My understanding.
      - call_me_dana 6y ago
        I too can speak in an authoritative tone in complete generalities with no logic or reason. Your comment actually creates more doubt about long term effects than it assuages. “There aren’t any long term effects. Because uh, there is no such thing as long term! Hah hah! It’s certainly not because they weren’t studied long enough.” Try posting a study that backs up the nonsense you’re spouting because you don’t seem trustworthy.
        hef19898 6y ago
bryanwb 6y ago
kudos to the Haredim of Bnei Brak for choosing to be human. I used to live near there.
- oblio 6y ago
  Human how?
benja123 6y ago
It’s not that simple. I am a non-heredi Israeli, but I live next to a Heredi neighborhood. Yes a lot of Heredim are breaking the rules, but so are a lot of non-heredi. I have yet to see any proof that the heredim are breaking them at a much larger scale than the other non-heredi groups. What is significant is that they live in much more densely populated areas with much larger families. Every infection is amplified by the number of people who come in contact with that infected person and this is likely what we are seeing with the heredi population. In the heredi community it is not unusual for 10+ people to live under the same roof. It has absolutely ravaged their older populations with one study estimating that 1 in 73 of the heredim over the age of 65 have died from COVID. Unfortunately among some of their communities the anti-vaccine propaganda has been very effective, but this is something the government is actively working to counter.
- tinyhouse 6y ago
  | I have yet to see any proof that the heredim are breaking them at a much larger scale than the other non-heredi groups. What about the weddings and funerals involving 1000s of people?
  - benja123 6y ago
    There is no denying that some of them are breaking the rules and yes the weddings and funerals in which there were 100s to 1000s of people are obviously bad, but that is not proof they are breaking the rules on a larger scale than the non-heredi population. Just this past weekend the police shut down two nature parties/raves around the town I live in. This happens every weekend. Does that mean the “seculars” are breaking the rules on a larger scale than anyone else? Of course not. You and I do not have enough information to know who is and who is not breaking the rules.

by jsharf 6y ago

marshmallow_12 6y ago

downtote. This is anti semitic. A fringe minority rioted. It's far too simplistic to say that covid is simply being ignored.

marshmallow_12 6y ago
why am i getting downvotes? The hareidim ignore lockdown because their way of life is more important to them even then some deaths. Difficult for an outsider to understand. As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. There will be a pushback (not that i agree). (and yes there could be more compliance, this is not the forum).
- hef19898 6y ago
  IMHO the downvotes have two reasons: Calling the Haredim out on their behaviour is not anti-semitic. Complaining or commenting about downvotes is not regarded well on HN.
  - throwawayy1112 6y ago
    > Calling the Haredim out on their behaviour is not anti-semitic. I wonder if all the people who upvote this would take offense to the same statement applied to black people or whatever identity you want to swap in.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > would take offense to the same statement applied to black people or whatever identity you want to swap in African Americans are not ignoring lockdown en masse. They are avoiding the vaccine, but that’s less problematic.
- mola 6y ago
  Israeli here. Their way of life is not threatened by a vaccine nor by lockdown. No more than any other citizen of israel. Their leadership still has ghetto mentality and sees the state as their enemy, so they always choose to go against it while crying Nazis. It doesn't matter that these so called Nazis are jews themselves. This is the sort of mentality that 2000 years of diaspora creates. Their way of life is now defined by choosing to be the outcast, by wearing outcast uniform, by fearing and hating those that don't wear the uniform. Their leadership is just aweful.
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    you are just spewing out old zionist propoganda. Its all been said before. And the secular leadership hasn't exactly covered itself in glory. You are entering, what? Your fourth consecutive election? point to me a single jewish leader in israel who would compare the state to the nazis? Not one. And they love the secular the same as anyone. At worst they hate their ideology. If you cannot distinguish yourself from your ideology, then yes, they do hate you.
  - strulovich 6y ago
    Israeli here as well. The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old. Also, name calling authorities you don’t like is a not even a national sport, it’s a global one. There’s a lot of good arguments against them, but they require more nuance.
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      >The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old. They will argue that its actually 3500 years old. Non hareidi judaism started .250 years ago with the haskala.
    - helge9210 6y ago
      > The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old. I would say, less than 80 years old. In most normal countries this kind of behavior would be called "destructive totalitarian sect".
- helge9210 6y ago
  > As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. This. I very much believe in vaccines in general and me and my whole family are vaccinated according to calendar, but getting injection of something that is still at phase 2 trials, created using technology never used before without information on long term effects is something else.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    All vaccines are properly approved in the EU. There are millions of people vaccinated world wide. I'd say the sample size is big enough to be sure. And long term effects take effect not years after the vaccination, the carry on that long. So any long term effects manifest within weeks and months. And so far there haven't been any. At least not beyond what other vaccines and medication has.
    - throwawayy1112 6y ago
      > So any long term effects manifest within weeks and months. So long-term effects should really be called short-term effects?
      - hef19898 6y ago
        Long term because they don't go away. Not because they show up after months or years. My understanding.
    - call_me_dana 6y ago
      I too can speak in an authoritative tone in complete generalities with no logic or reason. Your comment actually creates more doubt about long term effects than it assuages. “There aren’t any long term effects. Because uh, there is no such thing as long term! Hah hah! It’s certainly not because they weren’t studied long enough.” Try posting a study that backs up the nonsense you’re spouting because you don’t seem trustworthy.
      - hef19898 6y ago

bryanwb 6y ago

kudos to the Haredim of Bnei Brak for choosing to be human. I used to live near there.

oblio 6y ago
Human how?

benja123 6y ago

It’s not that simple. I am a non-heredi Israeli, but I live next to a Heredi neighborhood. Yes a lot of Heredim are breaking the rules, but so are a lot of non-heredi. I have yet to see any proof that the heredim are breaking them at a much larger scale than the other non-heredi groups. What is significant is that they live in much more densely populated areas with much larger families. Every infection is amplified by the number of people who come in contact with that infected person and this is likely what we are seeing with the heredi population. In the heredi community it is not unusual for 10+ people to live under the same roof. It has absolutely ravaged their older populations with one study estimating that 1 in 73 of the heredim over the age of 65 have died from COVID. Unfortunately among some of their communities the anti-vaccine propaganda has been very effective, but this is something the government is actively working to counter.

tinyhouse 6y ago
| I have yet to see any proof that the heredim are breaking them at a much larger scale than the other non-heredi groups. What about the weddings and funerals involving 1000s of people?
- benja123 6y ago
  There is no denying that some of them are breaking the rules and yes the weddings and funerals in which there were 100s to 1000s of people are obviously bad, but that is not proof they are breaking the rules on a larger scale than the non-heredi population. Just this past weekend the police shut down two nature parties/raves around the town I live in. This happens every weekend. Does that mean the “seculars” are breaking the rules on a larger scale than anyone else? Of course not. You and I do not have enough information to know who is and who is not breaking the rules.