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That is some well needed news! Just hope that Europe will speed up its vaccine distribution now.

lnsru 6y ago
It will not happen in Europe soon. The vaccine will be sold by manufacturers to highest bidder, that’s no surprise. And with the European ordering disaster as an adult I’ll get vaccinated best case in 2022.
- top_sigrid 6y ago
  I am not to sure you have that right. Europe's mistake was to spread vaccine orders with manufacturers without ordering enough from each. For Germany the numbers publicly reported have gotten more conrete the last few weeks. While there are only few doses for the first quater (about 18mio for 9 mio people ~ 11% of the population), in the second quarter there will be lots of doses delivered. Confirmed numbers are, that doses for over 40 million people will be delivered in the second quarter (including some one time vaccines from Johnson&Johnson, as also with them there were contracts). Together with the 9 mio from the first, that is 49mio people (~61%) in the first half of 2021. So while it started slow (as was to expect), numbers will start rising soon. These numbers were only for Germany, I don't know exactly how this reflects for Europe, but as all orders were made Europe-wide, I guess this is similar for the whole EU, at least that was the whole point for having a Europe-wide strategy.
  - ulfw 6y ago
    Yea but that's for first dosage given until end of June. That's still 4.5 months away. A long time considering thousands of infections and hundreds of deaths. Maybe paying a bit more would have been more intelligent (see Israel) than negotiating for months on end.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      The problem was, as usual, EU countries' nationalism and wealth disparity. Macron insisted that the EU not order more doses from Germany's Biontech than from French Sanofi. So far so usual, but the worst problem were the Eastern European countries - they insisted on also keeping AstraZeneca with their 1.78€ a dose on board because well they are poor and can't afford more.
      - readittwice 6y ago
        The EU bet pretty heavily on AstraZeneca and that's not the Eastern European countries fault. The EU already ordered in August, while they only ordered from Biontech and Moderna in November (11th and 25th). It wasn't wrong to buy AstraZeneca, it's cheap and more importantly easy to handle. The failure was to bet so much on it. AstraZeneca wasn't something that was odered as well, it was and still is THE vaccine that's intended for the largest part of the population. Money also can't be an issue, the EU has come up with 750B euros to fight the economical impact of the pandemics. That was already in April or so. For the vaccine the EU only had around 2.7B available for most of 2020. The UK alone spent more than that, the US over 10B$. The worst thing: 2B of those 2.7B euros were simply repurposed from an already existing fund. That means the EU states only had to come up with 700M euros together in total. Even ignoring all of that, the vaccine is so cheap compared to the costs of lockdowns (and lives) that the price simply does not matter much. Ironically the price they got is the part the EU is especially proud of and EU politicans are quick to point out that Israel payed twice as much per dose. What they don't say that the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine's price depends on the amount and delivery date. So you could actually pay more to get the vaccine sooner. It seems the EU chose not to do that because they felt good enough with AstraZeneca (they were supposed to start production in October). Unfortunately that information isn't public so we don't know for sure. But this would both explain why the EU didn't expect significant shipments from Non-AZ vaccines in the first quarter and why they got it cheaper.
      - krzyk 6y ago
        > So far so usual, but the worst problem were the Eastern European countries - they insisted on also keeping AstraZeneca with their 1.78€ a dose I thought AZ was €5 a dose. Well, as for EE countries, the largest by population size (EE country that is in EU) is Poland and they (we, I live here) ordered from multiple sources, and AZ isn't the largest one (J&J is, followed closely by Pfizer): Janssen Pharmaceutica NV / Johnson&Johnson 16,98 mln Pfizer / BioNTec 16,74 mln Astra Zeneca 16 mln CureVac 5,65 mln Moderna 6,69 mln Source: http://urpl.gov.pl/sites/default/files/OFICJALNY%20DOKUMENT%20Narodowy_Program_Szczepie%C5%84.pdf http://urpl.gov.pl/sites/default/files/OFICJALNY%20DOKUMENT%... The biggest issue for me is that I don't think I'll be able to select which vaccine I want to use, I don't like the AZ inferior efficacy compared to mRNA vaccines, not to mention how it handles the SA version of COVID-19 virus.
    - readittwice 6y ago
      Unfortunately the EU still communicates there is no problem with the procurement but only with evil pharmaceutical companies not delivering as promised. There will not be any remorse. It really must hurt them that even the heavily criticized politicians Johnson, Netanyahu and Trump did a much better job with procurement than the EU.
      - retromario 6y ago
        The EU messed up but they are at least publicly owning up to some of the blame (finally): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/ursula-von-der-leyen-admits-errors-in-eu-covid-vaccine-rollout https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/ursula-von-der...
        corty 6y ago
        Well, really owning up to a mistake that will cost a few tens of thousands of lives would at least be a resignation.
        readittwice 6y ago
        In that particular interview, I tend to agree. However I've seen/read multiple other interviews and talk shows where EU politicians talk quite differently. They may admit some general mistakes (without naming one) but still dispute each and every critic. In one talk show for example a representative of the European Commission at least mentioned twice that in Africa even less people got vaccinated than in the EU. Like this would be the frame of reference.
    - top_sigrid 6y ago
      Sure. It could also be that the end of the second quarter only means that the doses are delivered on 30th of June and that actual vaccination will be a little later than that. And yes, 4.5 month is a long time, i just wanted to point out that until the end of the summer probably everybody who wants to will have a chance to be vaccinated - at least in Germany. That is though if the organization of actually vaccinating people keeps up with that.
  - bb123 6y ago
    It is also worth mentioning that the AstraZeneca vaccine is being sold at cost. They're not making any profit from it.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Spreading orders across manufacturers was actually quite prudent. Sanofi's mRNA vaccine is delayed. We have no reaon to believe that is was impossible that the same could have happened to Biontech / Pfizer and / or Moderna. Overall the EU ordered 4+ doses per inhabitant, incl. minors. That seems to be enough. Single sourcing is never good. In case of vaccines it would mean that a) vaccines are delayed b) manufacturing issues happen. Also ordering enough from each manufacturer would have blown their manufacturing capacites. The necessary capacity increases woud just have further delayed deliveries, as the Pfizer plant in Belgium shows quite clearly. And yes, as far as I understood the AZ contract, alocations are the same for each EU memeber state. Proportionally of course, Germany will get more doses in absolute numbers than, say, Luxembourg.
- est31 6y ago
  Even if the EU had made different deals, doubling the price won't make production capacity appear out of nowhere. The UK and Israel can get vaccines in such large quantities because they are comparatively small countries. The EU might outbid those countries, but the gain of displacing them, while costing a lot, will distribute among the huge european population and thus will only shorten the wait period for individuals a little. Yes, maybe the EU could have tried working harder in ensuring they produce vaccines in enough quantities. This has cost real lives. That being said, a rushed and faulty vaccine is extremely harmful for public health as well, as it breeds anti-vaxxers and the time the next pandemic comes around, people will distrust the vaccine.
  - lnsru 6y ago
    There was time. I work in manufacturing, we plan factories years in advance of manufacturing start. Abandoned biotech factory cost is a drop in the ocean compared to weekly lockdown cost. Why countries failed here? If I would do such crap professionally, shelves of electronics stores would be empty.
    - est31 6y ago
      Absolutely agree. They should have started such projects back in February/March 2020. But while small countries can obtain quicker deliveries by ordering better, for large countries this venue is not open as manufacturing capacities are limited. My point was that looking at the problem in terms of how you ordered is misguided. Instead you should look at it in terms of how you have failed to help the manufacturers to expand production capacities.
    - saiya-jin 6y ago
      You are an expert with hand-on experience. Here decisions were done by career politicians, who are utterly clueless in any hard science, and basically often have only one skill mastered - the skill of selling themselves to population to get voted in. Hence the results.
      - Anthony-G 6y ago

It will not happen in Europe soon. The vaccine will be sold by manufacturers to highest bidder, that’s no surprise. And with the European ordering disaster as an adult I’ll get vaccinated best case in 2022.

top_sigrid 6y ago
I am not to sure you have that right. Europe's mistake was to spread vaccine orders with manufacturers without ordering enough from each. For Germany the numbers publicly reported have gotten more conrete the last few weeks. While there are only few doses for the first quater (about 18mio for 9 mio people ~ 11% of the population), in the second quarter there will be lots of doses delivered. Confirmed numbers are, that doses for over 40 million people will be delivered in the second quarter (including some one time vaccines from Johnson&Johnson, as also with them there were contracts). Together with the 9 mio from the first, that is 49mio people (~61%) in the first half of 2021. So while it started slow (as was to expect), numbers will start rising soon. These numbers were only for Germany, I don't know exactly how this reflects for Europe, but as all orders were made Europe-wide, I guess this is similar for the whole EU, at least that was the whole point for having a Europe-wide strategy.
- ulfw 6y ago
  Yea but that's for first dosage given until end of June. That's still 4.5 months away. A long time considering thousands of infections and hundreds of deaths. Maybe paying a bit more would have been more intelligent (see Israel) than negotiating for months on end.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    The problem was, as usual, EU countries' nationalism and wealth disparity. Macron insisted that the EU not order more doses from Germany's Biontech than from French Sanofi. So far so usual, but the worst problem were the Eastern European countries - they insisted on also keeping AstraZeneca with their 1.78€ a dose on board because well they are poor and can't afford more.
    - readittwice 6y ago
      The EU bet pretty heavily on AstraZeneca and that's not the Eastern European countries fault. The EU already ordered in August, while they only ordered from Biontech and Moderna in November (11th and 25th). It wasn't wrong to buy AstraZeneca, it's cheap and more importantly easy to handle. The failure was to bet so much on it. AstraZeneca wasn't something that was odered as well, it was and still is THE vaccine that's intended for the largest part of the population. Money also can't be an issue, the EU has come up with 750B euros to fight the economical impact of the pandemics. That was already in April or so. For the vaccine the EU only had around 2.7B available for most of 2020. The UK alone spent more than that, the US over 10B$. The worst thing: 2B of those 2.7B euros were simply repurposed from an already existing fund. That means the EU states only had to come up with 700M euros together in total. Even ignoring all of that, the vaccine is so cheap compared to the costs of lockdowns (and lives) that the price simply does not matter much. Ironically the price they got is the part the EU is especially proud of and EU politicans are quick to point out that Israel payed twice as much per dose. What they don't say that the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine's price depends on the amount and delivery date. So you could actually pay more to get the vaccine sooner. It seems the EU chose not to do that because they felt good enough with AstraZeneca (they were supposed to start production in October). Unfortunately that information isn't public so we don't know for sure. But this would both explain why the EU didn't expect significant shipments from Non-AZ vaccines in the first quarter and why they got it cheaper.
    - krzyk 6y ago
      > So far so usual, but the worst problem were the Eastern European countries - they insisted on also keeping AstraZeneca with their 1.78€ a dose I thought AZ was €5 a dose. Well, as for EE countries, the largest by population size (EE country that is in EU) is Poland and they (we, I live here) ordered from multiple sources, and AZ isn't the largest one (J&J is, followed closely by Pfizer): Janssen Pharmaceutica NV / Johnson&Johnson 16,98 mln Pfizer / BioNTec 16,74 mln Astra Zeneca 16 mln CureVac 5,65 mln Moderna 6,69 mln Source: http://urpl.gov.pl/sites/default/files/OFICJALNY%20DOKUMENT%20Narodowy_Program_Szczepie%C5%84.pdf http://urpl.gov.pl/sites/default/files/OFICJALNY%20DOKUMENT%... The biggest issue for me is that I don't think I'll be able to select which vaccine I want to use, I don't like the AZ inferior efficacy compared to mRNA vaccines, not to mention how it handles the SA version of COVID-19 virus.
  - readittwice 6y ago
    Unfortunately the EU still communicates there is no problem with the procurement but only with evil pharmaceutical companies not delivering as promised. There will not be any remorse. It really must hurt them that even the heavily criticized politicians Johnson, Netanyahu and Trump did a much better job with procurement than the EU.
    - retromario 6y ago
      The EU messed up but they are at least publicly owning up to some of the blame (finally): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/ursula-von-der-leyen-admits-errors-in-eu-covid-vaccine-rollout https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/ursula-von-der...
      - corty 6y ago
        Well, really owning up to a mistake that will cost a few tens of thousands of lives would at least be a resignation.
      - readittwice 6y ago
        In that particular interview, I tend to agree. However I've seen/read multiple other interviews and talk shows where EU politicians talk quite differently. They may admit some general mistakes (without naming one) but still dispute each and every critic. In one talk show for example a representative of the European Commission at least mentioned twice that in Africa even less people got vaccinated than in the EU. Like this would be the frame of reference.
  - top_sigrid 6y ago
    Sure. It could also be that the end of the second quarter only means that the doses are delivered on 30th of June and that actual vaccination will be a little later than that. And yes, 4.5 month is a long time, i just wanted to point out that until the end of the summer probably everybody who wants to will have a chance to be vaccinated - at least in Germany. That is though if the organization of actually vaccinating people keeps up with that.
- bb123 6y ago
  It is also worth mentioning that the AstraZeneca vaccine is being sold at cost. They're not making any profit from it.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Spreading orders across manufacturers was actually quite prudent. Sanofi's mRNA vaccine is delayed. We have no reaon to believe that is was impossible that the same could have happened to Biontech / Pfizer and / or Moderna. Overall the EU ordered 4+ doses per inhabitant, incl. minors. That seems to be enough. Single sourcing is never good. In case of vaccines it would mean that a) vaccines are delayed b) manufacturing issues happen. Also ordering enough from each manufacturer would have blown their manufacturing capacites. The necessary capacity increases woud just have further delayed deliveries, as the Pfizer plant in Belgium shows quite clearly. And yes, as far as I understood the AZ contract, alocations are the same for each EU memeber state. Proportionally of course, Germany will get more doses in absolute numbers than, say, Luxembourg.
est31 6y ago
Even if the EU had made different deals, doubling the price won't make production capacity appear out of nowhere. The UK and Israel can get vaccines in such large quantities because they are comparatively small countries. The EU might outbid those countries, but the gain of displacing them, while costing a lot, will distribute among the huge european population and thus will only shorten the wait period for individuals a little. Yes, maybe the EU could have tried working harder in ensuring they produce vaccines in enough quantities. This has cost real lives. That being said, a rushed and faulty vaccine is extremely harmful for public health as well, as it breeds anti-vaxxers and the time the next pandemic comes around, people will distrust the vaccine.
- lnsru 6y ago
  There was time. I work in manufacturing, we plan factories years in advance of manufacturing start. Abandoned biotech factory cost is a drop in the ocean compared to weekly lockdown cost. Why countries failed here? If I would do such crap professionally, shelves of electronics stores would be empty.
  - est31 6y ago
    Absolutely agree. They should have started such projects back in February/March 2020. But while small countries can obtain quicker deliveries by ordering better, for large countries this venue is not open as manufacturing capacities are limited. My point was that looking at the problem in terms of how you ordered is misguided. Instead you should look at it in terms of how you have failed to help the manufacturers to expand production capacities.
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    You are an expert with hand-on experience. Here decisions were done by career politicians, who are utterly clueless in any hard science, and basically often have only one skill mastered - the skill of selling themselves to population to get voted in. Hence the results.
    - Anthony-G 6y ago