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Keep it respectful guys - while a lot of you are earning a shit load to peddle ads, this dude make some amazing original things and more importantly spent a hug

Keep it respectful guys - while a lot of you are earning a shit load to peddle ads, this dude make some amazing original things and more importantly spent a huge portion of his life trying to help others get value from his thoughts and ideas.

Badfood 6y ago
I know who I'd want to spend an afternoon talking to
- orange3xchicken 6y ago
  Some tier-A mathematicians working on some pretty fucking cool problems in online decision making and machine learning, or someone who writes shit like: "Young people these days, I am told, are illiterate and cannot understand the written word. They can learn only from video. So should I speak to them in the language they understand? Yes, I probably am a genius—but the issue is meaningless."
  - Donckele 6y ago
    Write shit or talk shit? I’ll take write shit.
  - sarakayakomzin 6y ago
    >Some tier-A mathematicians working on some pretty fucking cool problems in online decision making and machine learning, bahaha
  - paganel 6y ago
    Efficient matrix multiplication does not make one a “tier-A mathematician”. And to add to that, even tier-A mathematics can be pretty damn boring.
    - orange3xchicken 6y ago
      I wasn't talking about methods for matrix multiplication. The algorithms that are used by most ad recommendation services are deep enough themselves. The ICML test of time award this year was for an adaptation of a technique used to study online decision making algorithms.
    - throwawaygimp 6y ago
      oddly enough, as boring as parts of math can be, for the layperson at least, I've yet to meet a boring mathemetician. Yet...
solipsism 6y ago
This guy seems to try to bluntly tell it like it is. He's completely wrong, but hopefully he can appreciate the same sort of blunt feedback from others.
HourglassFR 6y ago
He has some interesting idea and is more than ready to share them with others, which is a respectable thing to do I agree. On the other hand, I find his models hilariously bad, e.g. : > With Balance of Power, I could write a simple equation for the number of fighters who would join an insurgency against the government: > `Fighters = Political Immaturity * Population * Previous Success of Insurgency` > Here, `Political Immaturity` is a constant I defined for each country based on my estimate of how much people respected the rule of law. I mean, come on…
- bartread 6y ago
  Of course, but such simplifications are necessary given the limited power of typical 8- and 16-bit home computers of the time. And you don't need to do anything particularly advanced to create an engaging game, which Balance of Power is.
  - mcv 6y ago
    Of course you need to keep things simple on the hardware of that time. But still, I don't understand his complaint that nobody else followed in his footsteps; Europa Universalis has tons of calculations like that, all of them a lot more sophisticated than that. They're still massive simplifications of course, but I don't see how it's not a natural progression from his work in the 1980s.
    - BoiledCabbage 6y ago
      > Europa Universalis has tons of calculations like that, all of them a lot more sophisticated than that. It's incredible how many people keep missing the man's point. Almost making it for him. His point is the gaming industry is still completely filled with mindless NPCs and simple boolean interactions. He calls out God of War in another article as an extreme disappointment. The fact that everyone here is saying his ideas have continued, but keep naming the same two or three games made by only a couple gaming companies proves how right he is. If you want any form of deep interactivity play a deep strategy game, anything else besides that in game design is still about as interactive as pacman. His point is that after 35 years and literal orders of magnitude improvement in processing power, the average game is still modeled using incredibly simplistic logic and makes for empty interactions. And take a look at most any top selling game and it's true. Your average squirrel in the park has more interesting behavior or interaction than most game characters. It's essentially just been "better graphics, bigger explosions" for three decades now. None of that precludes dynamic interactions.
kace91 6y ago
> Keep it respectful guys - while a lot of you are earning a shit load to peddle ads, What an entrance.
- throwawaygimp 6y ago
  yea sorry not my best work, was in a bad mood after reading the pretty negative early comments
bartread 6y ago
I don't get the "nobody used my ideas" sentiment. Think about Eastern Front (which I haven't played) or Balance of Power (which I have, on the Amiga). There are tons of games that are similarly built, in whole or in part, on such mathematical models: SimCity, Rollercoaster Tycoon, the Civ series, any number of turn-based and real-time strategy games going back to the 8-bit era. Even RPGs use mathematical rules, with a handy dose of chance, to decide the outcome of different kinds of attack. There's even a whole (I seem to remember) chapter in Stephen Hill's "Amiga Game Maker's Manual with AMOS Basic" on building "simulation games" using simple mathematical models. Whilst I respect Chris Crawford's contribution to the video games industry I don't understand this perspective at all.
lmm 6y ago
> spent a huge portion of his life trying to help others get value from his thoughts and ideas. Did he really? Or did he spend that time satisfying his own ego and tell himself it was for the sake of helping others? Certainly it sounds like he managed less actual helping others than those of us "earning a shit load to peddle ads".
afterwalk 6y ago
Speak for yourself. I make my $$$ selling saas tools to people who make tools for people who invest in tools for ad peddlers.
- throwawaygimp 6y ago
  true true... I also make my $$$ designing systems for people to earn money to spend with the ad peddlers. We're all guilty
mbrodersen 6y ago
I have read most of the stuff he has written and it is 95% fluff and 5% ideas. Lots of promises and self-promoting. Very little actual value. In contrast, I have also read Einstein’s book about relativity. The difference is like night and day. Einstein: 100% mind blowing ideas. 0% self-promoting.

Badfood 6y ago

I know who I'd want to spend an afternoon talking to

orange3xchicken 6y ago
Some tier-A mathematicians working on some pretty fucking cool problems in online decision making and machine learning, or someone who writes shit like: "Young people these days, I am told, are illiterate and cannot understand the written word. They can learn only from video. So should I speak to them in the language they understand? Yes, I probably am a genius—but the issue is meaningless."
- Donckele 6y ago
  Write shit or talk shit? I’ll take write shit.
- sarakayakomzin 6y ago
  >Some tier-A mathematicians working on some pretty fucking cool problems in online decision making and machine learning, bahaha
- paganel 6y ago
  Efficient matrix multiplication does not make one a “tier-A mathematician”. And to add to that, even tier-A mathematics can be pretty damn boring.
  - orange3xchicken 6y ago
    I wasn't talking about methods for matrix multiplication. The algorithms that are used by most ad recommendation services are deep enough themselves. The ICML test of time award this year was for an adaptation of a technique used to study online decision making algorithms.
  - throwawaygimp 6y ago
    oddly enough, as boring as parts of math can be, for the layperson at least, I've yet to meet a boring mathemetician. Yet...

solipsism 6y ago

This guy seems to try to bluntly tell it like it is. He's completely wrong, but hopefully he can appreciate the same sort of blunt feedback from others.

HourglassFR 6y ago

He has some interesting idea and is more than ready to share them with others, which is a respectable thing to do I agree. On the other hand, I find his models hilariously bad, e.g. : > With Balance of Power, I could write a simple equation for the number of fighters who would join an insurgency against the government: > `Fighters = Political Immaturity * Population * Previous Success of Insurgency` > Here, `Political Immaturity` is a constant I defined for each country based on my estimate of how much people respected the rule of law. I mean, come on…

bartread 6y ago
Of course, but such simplifications are necessary given the limited power of typical 8- and 16-bit home computers of the time. And you don't need to do anything particularly advanced to create an engaging game, which Balance of Power is.
- mcv 6y ago
  Of course you need to keep things simple on the hardware of that time. But still, I don't understand his complaint that nobody else followed in his footsteps; Europa Universalis has tons of calculations like that, all of them a lot more sophisticated than that. They're still massive simplifications of course, but I don't see how it's not a natural progression from his work in the 1980s.
  - BoiledCabbage 6y ago
    > Europa Universalis has tons of calculations like that, all of them a lot more sophisticated than that. It's incredible how many people keep missing the man's point. Almost making it for him. His point is the gaming industry is still completely filled with mindless NPCs and simple boolean interactions. He calls out God of War in another article as an extreme disappointment. The fact that everyone here is saying his ideas have continued, but keep naming the same two or three games made by only a couple gaming companies proves how right he is. If you want any form of deep interactivity play a deep strategy game, anything else besides that in game design is still about as interactive as pacman. His point is that after 35 years and literal orders of magnitude improvement in processing power, the average game is still modeled using incredibly simplistic logic and makes for empty interactions. And take a look at most any top selling game and it's true. Your average squirrel in the park has more interesting behavior or interaction than most game characters. It's essentially just been "better graphics, bigger explosions" for three decades now. None of that precludes dynamic interactions.

kace91 6y ago

> Keep it respectful guys - while a lot of you are earning a shit load to peddle ads, What an entrance.

throwawaygimp 6y ago
yea sorry not my best work, was in a bad mood after reading the pretty negative early comments

bartread 6y ago

I don't get the "nobody used my ideas" sentiment. Think about Eastern Front (which I haven't played) or Balance of Power (which I have, on the Amiga). There are tons of games that are similarly built, in whole or in part, on such mathematical models: SimCity, Rollercoaster Tycoon, the Civ series, any number of turn-based and real-time strategy games going back to the 8-bit era. Even RPGs use mathematical rules, with a handy dose of chance, to decide the outcome of different kinds of attack. There's even a whole (I seem to remember) chapter in Stephen Hill's "Amiga Game Maker's Manual with AMOS Basic" on building "simulation games" using simple mathematical models. Whilst I respect Chris Crawford's contribution to the video games industry I don't understand this perspective at all.

lmm 6y ago

> spent a huge portion of his life trying to help others get value from his thoughts and ideas. Did he really? Or did he spend that time satisfying his own ego and tell himself it was for the sake of helping others? Certainly it sounds like he managed less actual helping others than those of us "earning a shit load to peddle ads".

afterwalk 6y ago

Speak for yourself. I make my $$$ selling saas tools to people who make tools for people who invest in tools for ad peddlers.

throwawaygimp 6y ago
true true... I also make my $$$ designing systems for people to earn money to spend with the ad peddlers. We're all guilty

mbrodersen 6y ago

I have read most of the stuff he has written and it is 95% fluff and 5% ideas. Lots of promises and self-promoting. Very little actual value. In contrast, I have also read Einstein’s book about relativity. The difference is like night and day. Einstein: 100% mind blowing ideas. 0% self-promoting.