4 ms·

> I think Fauci fell a beat behind the narrative marching band in March when he said no to masks for the general population, and so had to make up a dumb story

by pen2l 6y ago

> I think Fauci fell a beat behind the narrative marching band in March when he said no to masks for the general population, and so had to make up a dumb story in June about how he nobly lied to save PPE for frontline workers in March. Consider this interview, done early March, in which Fauci argues against masks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI . You don't even have to read between the lines because he explains his reasoning bluntly: "Exactly, that's the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for people [(healthcare workers)] who really need it." He never at any point thought masks were ineffective. When he did say so in March as you see from this interview, he said it because he was concerned about shortages for medical staff. There doesn't exist evidence with which one can credibly accuse him of committing this sort of revisionism. Bringing up Kramer betrays a lack of familiarity with Fauci's history. Kramer and Fauci eventually came to be very close friends, and Kramer is on record saying Fauci was LGBT community's best friend. Mullis lost his marbles later in his life, sounding fringe views on HIV, astrology and lots of other stuff. His contribution of PCR technique is undeniably one of the great discoveries in chemistry, but he's not an authority on much else.

BrendanEich 6y ago
I read reports of Kramer patching things up with Fauci. Excluding the ones from after Larry died that were sourced to Fauci alone, what do you know? Thanks for any links. March 8, 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pEcgDmEUk&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pEcgDmEUk&feature=emb_logo This video shows Fauci saying people should not wear masks, that they get a false sense of security, that there are unintended consequences: fiddling with masks, touching masks, dirtying masks/failing to clean, etc. At end "you should think of healthcare providers and people who are ill." Also, that last point about conserving PPE doesn't apply to cloth, which health orders allow instead of polyprop. Surgical masks were plentiful in March. Again, right there in this video, Fauci did not argue against civilian masking solely based on shortages. He really did say that most people should not be wearing. Right or wrong, he was giving advice consistent with the US Surgeon General, CDC at the time, and WHO (which has varied its advice in the last year).
- pen2l 6y ago
  > Fauci did not argue against civilian masking solely based on shortages. No, he did. You linked the same clip I linked, except minus the 20 seconds where he reveals his reasoning. Please refer to slightly longer version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI I agree it wasn't a great thing to play down masks to the extent he did, but as someone else pointed out, explaining the nuance of the situation to 350 million people is a tough task. Remember the toilet paper situation? Imagine if he'd sold masks as the solution, people would try to get their hands on one at all costs, they would not have faith in home-made cloth masks, they'd want what doctors are wearing because those are the ones that really work (is what they'd be saying)! Stories like these would be commonplace: https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/160-pieces-of-n95-surgical-masks-stolen-from-car-parked-in-sheung-shui/ https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/160-pieces-of-n95-surgical-masks-... I frankly don't know how else he could've handled this if at the time the information available to them indicated a possible shortage of masks. What would you have done in his place at that time in that situation? And coming back to my original point: doesn't Fauci deserve a pass on this one, considering how sticky the situation was? Give me a few minutes to find a link on Kramer talking about Fauci
  - BrendanEich 6y ago
    I saw the longer version, it ends with Fauci saying "that's the point." But he made several points, as did the Surgeon General. The policy guidance was not in favor of mandates for several reasons. I don't know how else to say this clearly. It seems from a recent comment from somenone in Taiwan (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26139550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26139550) that masks were not mandated apart from trains and certain private settings until recently. There may be ancient inherited CoV partial immunity operating across much of Asia, people may be tidier and more careful, etc. Masks are just one of several tools, with downside risks. From the Danish RCT and many others, they seem not significantly effective in general populations against respiratory viruses. Mandates, especially with such selective enforcement and hypocrisy in high places, plus overpaying and probably skimming a la Newsom, stink.
    - 6y ago

by pen2l 6y ago

BrendanEich 6y ago

I read reports of Kramer patching things up with Fauci. Excluding the ones from after Larry died that were sourced to Fauci alone, what do you know? Thanks for any links. March 8, 2020: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pEcgDmEUk&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pEcgDmEUk&feature=emb_logo This video shows Fauci saying people should not wear masks, that they get a false sense of security, that there are unintended consequences: fiddling with masks, touching masks, dirtying masks/failing to clean, etc. At end "you should think of healthcare providers and people who are ill." Also, that last point about conserving PPE doesn't apply to cloth, which health orders allow instead of polyprop. Surgical masks were plentiful in March. Again, right there in this video, Fauci did not argue against civilian masking solely based on shortages. He really did say that most people should not be wearing. Right or wrong, he was giving advice consistent with the US Surgeon General, CDC at the time, and WHO (which has varied its advice in the last year).

pen2l 6y ago
> Fauci did not argue against civilian masking solely based on shortages. No, he did. You linked the same clip I linked, except minus the 20 seconds where he reveals his reasoning. Please refer to slightly longer version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI I agree it wasn't a great thing to play down masks to the extent he did, but as someone else pointed out, explaining the nuance of the situation to 350 million people is a tough task. Remember the toilet paper situation? Imagine if he'd sold masks as the solution, people would try to get their hands on one at all costs, they would not have faith in home-made cloth masks, they'd want what doctors are wearing because those are the ones that really work (is what they'd be saying)! Stories like these would be commonplace: https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/160-pieces-of-n95-surgical-masks-stolen-from-car-parked-in-sheung-shui/ https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/160-pieces-of-n95-surgical-masks-... I frankly don't know how else he could've handled this if at the time the information available to them indicated a possible shortage of masks. What would you have done in his place at that time in that situation? And coming back to my original point: doesn't Fauci deserve a pass on this one, considering how sticky the situation was? Give me a few minutes to find a link on Kramer talking about Fauci
- BrendanEich 6y ago
  I saw the longer version, it ends with Fauci saying "that's the point." But he made several points, as did the Surgeon General. The policy guidance was not in favor of mandates for several reasons. I don't know how else to say this clearly. It seems from a recent comment from somenone in Taiwan (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26139550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26139550) that masks were not mandated apart from trains and certain private settings until recently. There may be ancient inherited CoV partial immunity operating across much of Asia, people may be tidier and more careful, etc. Masks are just one of several tools, with downside risks. From the Danish RCT and many others, they seem not significantly effective in general populations against respiratory viruses. Mandates, especially with such selective enforcement and hypocrisy in high places, plus overpaying and probably skimming a la Newsom, stink.
  - 6y ago