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You're making the assumption that either party can solve homelessness simply by being in power. Homelessness is a deeper problem that requires cultural change.

You're making the assumption that either party can solve homelessness simply by being in power. Homelessness is a deeper problem that requires cultural change. It's not simply an economic problem. For example, when I lived in Taiwan in the early 90s there was nary a homeless person. That's not because Taiwan's government had a better social net, nor was it because Taiwan . It was simply because in Taiwan's culture it was unheard of for anyone to let anyone else in their family go homeless. That in America people could have a homeless sibling or child or parent was almost unfathomable. I'm not suggesting America adopt Taiwan's culture. But I am saying American culture's hyper-individualistic sink-or-swim culture has consequences. It's only in the context of such a culture that the neoliberal Democratic party appears "left", when in fact it is quite center if not center-right.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> You're making the assumption that either party can solve homelessness simply by being in power. There are several obvious ways of doing this, from "just build more homeless shelters" to a UBI to less restrictive zoning so that people aren't priced out of housing etc. But these all cost money or political capital, so we see where the priorities are. > It's only in the context of such a culture that the neoliberal Democratic party appears "left", when in fact it is quite center if not center-right. This is old talking point that might have been true in 1994: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... Unless you're talking about what they do instead of what they say they're going to do. Then you might still be correct.
- eevilspock 6y ago
  > Unless you're talking about what they do instead of what they say they're going to do. Yes. That’s my point about culture. There’s a reason racism and sexism still dominate despite a constitution that has said “all men are created equal” for nearly 250 years and then clarifying amendments 150 and 100 years ago. It’s the culture. Both problems could have been vanquished long ago if they were truly priorities in people’s hearts. But there are not. American culture, both liberal and conservative subcultures, always put self-interest ahead of common good when the chips are down. Your link speaks of liberal vs conservative. Talk to any true leftist: Liberal != Left. See “neoliberalism”. See the nomination of Biden by the Dems. See Diane Feinstein continuing to be California’s senior senator. Etc. See the amount of wealth inequality just within the liberal subset of the population. New York has the most segregated school system of any big city despite being liberal, and then look at the backlash by liberals over attempts to desegregate both in NYC and SF. I could go and on.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    I think we're mostly agreeing, but I have a bone to pick with the claim that it's a problem with self-interest. Self-interest isn't culture, it's human nature. Getting people to act against their own self-interest is an exercise in futility. The key is to establish an environment in which people genuinely believe that the common good is in their own self-interest. So for example, a primary reason why there is such high homelessness in San Francisco is high housing costs. But it's in the housing developer's self-interest to knock down some housing valued at $4000/month and build 50 units of the same size on the same lot, even if the aggregate effect of doing so at scale is to cause the value of each unit to fall to $2000/month, because 50*$2000 is still a lot more than $4000. Which in turn reduces housing costs and homelessness. What's stopping this isn't individuals acting in their own self-interest, it's the local government being captured by local landlords who don't want rents to fall. The reason racism and sexism still dominate is that they're a wedge used by elites to keep poor black folks and poor white folks on opposite sides of the isle instead of voting together against the corruption that victimizes them both, and sow general discord in the population by dividing any group that contains both men and women, which is just about all of them. They convince black people that their enemy is the redneck and vice versa so that the two groups don't get together and start asking why it's so hard to start a small business. The true solution to racial and economic inequality is upward mobility, but notice that nobody is even talking about that anymore. As if the solution to race is taking down statues and similarly worthless symbolic voids. But none of this is culture or individualism. It's purposeful manipulation.
zo1 6y ago
The problem is absolutely solvable to a large extent. Where we get stuck is in the decision as to which solution to take. We have to pick a solution, and we are unfortunately stuck in democracy-powered limbo and deadlock where we can't reach consensus. Each of the solutions have pros, cons, and some groups have ideological or moral objections to various combinations of the solutions, not to mention existing legal and moral frameworks that gimp them.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

> You're making the assumption that either party can solve homelessness simply by being in power. There are several obvious ways of doing this, from "just build more homeless shelters" to a UBI to less restrictive zoning so that people aren't priced out of housing etc. But these all cost money or political capital, so we see where the priorities are. > It's only in the context of such a culture that the neoliberal Democratic party appears "left", when in fact it is quite center if not center-right. This is old talking point that might have been true in 1994: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/interactives/political-... Unless you're talking about what they do instead of what they say they're going to do. Then you might still be correct.

eevilspock 6y ago
> Unless you're talking about what they do instead of what they say they're going to do. Yes. That’s my point about culture. There’s a reason racism and sexism still dominate despite a constitution that has said “all men are created equal” for nearly 250 years and then clarifying amendments 150 and 100 years ago. It’s the culture. Both problems could have been vanquished long ago if they were truly priorities in people’s hearts. But there are not. American culture, both liberal and conservative subcultures, always put self-interest ahead of common good when the chips are down. Your link speaks of liberal vs conservative. Talk to any true leftist: Liberal != Left. See “neoliberalism”. See the nomination of Biden by the Dems. See Diane Feinstein continuing to be California’s senior senator. Etc. See the amount of wealth inequality just within the liberal subset of the population. New York has the most segregated school system of any big city despite being liberal, and then look at the backlash by liberals over attempts to desegregate both in NYC and SF. I could go and on.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  I think we're mostly agreeing, but I have a bone to pick with the claim that it's a problem with self-interest. Self-interest isn't culture, it's human nature. Getting people to act against their own self-interest is an exercise in futility. The key is to establish an environment in which people genuinely believe that the common good is in their own self-interest. So for example, a primary reason why there is such high homelessness in San Francisco is high housing costs. But it's in the housing developer's self-interest to knock down some housing valued at $4000/month and build 50 units of the same size on the same lot, even if the aggregate effect of doing so at scale is to cause the value of each unit to fall to $2000/month, because 50*$2000 is still a lot more than $4000. Which in turn reduces housing costs and homelessness. What's stopping this isn't individuals acting in their own self-interest, it's the local government being captured by local landlords who don't want rents to fall. The reason racism and sexism still dominate is that they're a wedge used by elites to keep poor black folks and poor white folks on opposite sides of the isle instead of voting together against the corruption that victimizes them both, and sow general discord in the population by dividing any group that contains both men and women, which is just about all of them. They convince black people that their enemy is the redneck and vice versa so that the two groups don't get together and start asking why it's so hard to start a small business. The true solution to racial and economic inequality is upward mobility, but notice that nobody is even talking about that anymore. As if the solution to race is taking down statues and similarly worthless symbolic voids. But none of this is culture or individualism. It's purposeful manipulation.

zo1 6y ago

The problem is absolutely solvable to a large extent. Where we get stuck is in the decision as to which solution to take. We have to pick a solution, and we are unfortunately stuck in democracy-powered limbo and deadlock where we can't reach consensus. Each of the solutions have pros, cons, and some groups have ideological or moral objections to various combinations of the solutions, not to mention existing legal and moral frameworks that gimp them.