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Ti and Scandium have different ride characteristics. Scandium (and aluminum) is stiffer. Ti, like steel has a little flex to it. While I honestly doubt anyone c

Ti and Scandium have different ride characteristics. Scandium (and aluminum) is stiffer. Ti, like steel has a little flex to it. While I honestly doubt anyone can really feel the difference, there are plenty of people who swear they can. They've pretty much both gone out of style and largely not for the reasons this article suggest. Carbon fiber more or less took over the higher end of the bike industry. It is lighter and can be tuned for better ride characteristics than either Ti or Scandium (it can be stiffer than aluminum or or more flexible depending on layup). Carbon is even pushing aluminum out of the mid-high end of the bike market in many places.

rich_sasha 6y ago
I went from steel to aluminium and I do think I could tell a big difference. Not a double blind test ofc.
mariusor 6y ago
I think where the difference between flexible materials like carbon fiber and steel, and stiffer materials like aluminum is most easily observed is on rough road surfaces (like rumble surfaces or even cobbled stone).
- jacquesm 6y ago
  That and in the position of the bottom bracket, in a 'stiff' bike you'll definitely see much less movement of the bottom bracket (and thus less change in orientation of the pedals), on an aluminum based frame this can be quite noticeable while cycling, especially when standing on the pedals.
  - discreteevent 6y ago
    There is an open question into whether the flex in the bottom bracket is recovered microseconds later into forward motion. Not much of the energy that goes into flexing a stiff spring is lost as heat. And could it even be beneficial because it works more naturally with the body of the rider? Sean Kelly rode some of the early "noodly" aluminium frames and if anyone could flex a frame, he could. Didn't seem to slow him down.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      Oh, to clarify: I did not mean that it would lose you any energy, it is just something that is different.
  - mariusor 6y ago
    Personally I've never felt the change in bottom bracket flexing, but I always feel how different frames feel on certain bits of road. Maybe I'm just not outputting enough power, I don't know.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      Or quite possibly you have pretty stiff bikes. I have an oldie aluminum one that is so flexible that I don't like to drive it, an oldie steel one that is as rigid as they come and my 'regular' bike (and older carbon frame) is now living elsewhere so I can't compare them side-by-side anymore but it was pretty stiff as well. Tube diameter for the tubes connecting to the bottom bracket can make a big difference too. The tandem we have (a Koga 26") is pretty flexible too but it is kind of logical for being aluminum and that long, you can really tell if you're both pushing hard, the whole thing warps. But better bending than breaking!
mpol 6y ago
"While I honestly doubt anyone can really feel the difference, there are plenty of people who swear they can." Problem here is that most people will have one bicycle, which makes it hard to compare. When I started cycling again, I bought 2 bicycles, in 2 slightly different sizes to get a feel for the right size. One was made of classic steel, one was made of oversized aluminium. I really could tell the difference over rougher roads. To my surprise, wheelsets made just as much difference. When switching different wheelsets, I could double the comfort of the steel bike by matching it with really nice wheels. With the aluminium bike I could double the harshness. Using the steel bike with the hard wheelset and the aluminium bike with the nice wheelset, made it somewhat even for me. If you need advise for a nice wheelset, I can heartily recommend a Campagnolo Scirocco wheelset :)
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  I have 5. Ok six if you count the tandem. Steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber, cover all the bases. I mountain bike mostly though so the tires can dampen a lot of the vibrations people suggest steel sucks up. Also, I think getting a good carbon bar on an aluminum bike does wonders for whatever vibrations the trail is kicking up. I do agree about wheels though, good stiff wheels and a through axel completely change the ride of a bike versus old school aluminum rims with quick releases.
wiredfool 6y ago
There are parts of a bike that you can absolutely feel, and parts that a skilled rider can feel. Easily noticeable: * Tires. Wide supple tires make a huge difference, especally as the quality of the road goes down. They're no slower than narrow tires. Narrow high pressure tires chatter, the feel faster from the vibration, but they're not when tested. * Fork. Carbon forks change the vibration profile dramatically, aluminum forks are pretty harsh in my memory, and steel can be liveish, or just harsh and stiff, depending on how it's built. An aluminum or steel bike with a carbon fork rides very similar to a carbon frame carbon fork. Less noticeable: Handlebar/Seat. These cantilever out, and there is flex, but it's subtle. On the other hand, if you don't have a good seat for your anatomy/riding style, it's the single best upgrade you can make. Stem/Seatpost. There's some flex in these, but it's much less than the above, but they still are there. Possibly noticeable: Frame stiffness/Weight/Wheel stiffness I've got three bikes I ride now, a Carbon/Carbon road bike, with 25mm max tires, a cheapish Al/Carbon Fork "all road" bike that's had 700cx25, 700cx35, and 650bx42 (Babyshoe Pass) tires on it, and a handbuilt steel tandem with 26x42mm tires. I've also ridden most combinations of Steel frame/ Al/Carbon/Steel fork, Al Frame w/ Al Fork/Carbon Fork, and Carbon/Carbon. The narrow tires are horrible, except on excellent roads, of which there are a few. The 650b tires are nearly the best thing I've ever put on a bike, with the possible exception of a seat that fits my butt. They glide on bad chipseal, where my riding companions chatter their cables and teeth. They're ok on everything this side of singletrack. The Al/Carbon bike still feels a little dead, and it doesn't really reward high power spinning, which I attribute to the heavy stiff frame and the carbon fork. The Tandem just feels alive riding, and you can see the fork flexing over road noise. It's got a quality of ride that just isn't there with the other bikes. My next bike is going to be Steel with a pretty flexy fork, and probably a pretty noodly steel frame at that. (Looking at a Crust Canti Lightning Bolt or best match, if I can ever get one). It'll have 42mm tires minimum, and maybe 48's if they will fit with fenders. I'm not racing, I'm riding alone or with friends, not super long nor super fast, but 60->100mi at 16-18mph depending on terrain, wind, and fitness levels.

rich_sasha 6y ago

I went from steel to aluminium and I do think I could tell a big difference. Not a double blind test ofc.

mariusor 6y ago

I think where the difference between flexible materials like carbon fiber and steel, and stiffer materials like aluminum is most easily observed is on rough road surfaces (like rumble surfaces or even cobbled stone).

jacquesm 6y ago
That and in the position of the bottom bracket, in a 'stiff' bike you'll definitely see much less movement of the bottom bracket (and thus less change in orientation of the pedals), on an aluminum based frame this can be quite noticeable while cycling, especially when standing on the pedals.
- discreteevent 6y ago
  There is an open question into whether the flex in the bottom bracket is recovered microseconds later into forward motion. Not much of the energy that goes into flexing a stiff spring is lost as heat. And could it even be beneficial because it works more naturally with the body of the rider? Sean Kelly rode some of the early "noodly" aluminium frames and if anyone could flex a frame, he could. Didn't seem to slow him down.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    Oh, to clarify: I did not mean that it would lose you any energy, it is just something that is different.
- mariusor 6y ago
  Personally I've never felt the change in bottom bracket flexing, but I always feel how different frames feel on certain bits of road. Maybe I'm just not outputting enough power, I don't know.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    Or quite possibly you have pretty stiff bikes. I have an oldie aluminum one that is so flexible that I don't like to drive it, an oldie steel one that is as rigid as they come and my 'regular' bike (and older carbon frame) is now living elsewhere so I can't compare them side-by-side anymore but it was pretty stiff as well. Tube diameter for the tubes connecting to the bottom bracket can make a big difference too. The tandem we have (a Koga 26") is pretty flexible too but it is kind of logical for being aluminum and that long, you can really tell if you're both pushing hard, the whole thing warps. But better bending than breaking!

mpol 6y ago

"While I honestly doubt anyone can really feel the difference, there are plenty of people who swear they can." Problem here is that most people will have one bicycle, which makes it hard to compare. When I started cycling again, I bought 2 bicycles, in 2 slightly different sizes to get a feel for the right size. One was made of classic steel, one was made of oversized aluminium. I really could tell the difference over rougher roads. To my surprise, wheelsets made just as much difference. When switching different wheelsets, I could double the comfort of the steel bike by matching it with really nice wheels. With the aluminium bike I could double the harshness. Using the steel bike with the hard wheelset and the aluminium bike with the nice wheelset, made it somewhat even for me. If you need advise for a nice wheelset, I can heartily recommend a Campagnolo Scirocco wheelset :)

ogre_codes 6y ago
I have 5. Ok six if you count the tandem. Steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber, cover all the bases. I mountain bike mostly though so the tires can dampen a lot of the vibrations people suggest steel sucks up. Also, I think getting a good carbon bar on an aluminum bike does wonders for whatever vibrations the trail is kicking up. I do agree about wheels though, good stiff wheels and a through axel completely change the ride of a bike versus old school aluminum rims with quick releases.

wiredfool 6y ago

There are parts of a bike that you can absolutely feel, and parts that a skilled rider can feel. Easily noticeable: * Tires. Wide supple tires make a huge difference, especally as the quality of the road goes down. They're no slower than narrow tires. Narrow high pressure tires chatter, the feel faster from the vibration, but they're not when tested. * Fork. Carbon forks change the vibration profile dramatically, aluminum forks are pretty harsh in my memory, and steel can be liveish, or just harsh and stiff, depending on how it's built. An aluminum or steel bike with a carbon fork rides very similar to a carbon frame carbon fork. Less noticeable: Handlebar/Seat. These cantilever out, and there is flex, but it's subtle. On the other hand, if you don't have a good seat for your anatomy/riding style, it's the single best upgrade you can make. Stem/Seatpost. There's some flex in these, but it's much less than the above, but they still are there. Possibly noticeable: Frame stiffness/Weight/Wheel stiffness I've got three bikes I ride now, a Carbon/Carbon road bike, with 25mm max tires, a cheapish Al/Carbon Fork "all road" bike that's had 700cx25, 700cx35, and 650bx42 (Babyshoe Pass) tires on it, and a handbuilt steel tandem with 26x42mm tires. I've also ridden most combinations of Steel frame/ Al/Carbon/Steel fork, Al Frame w/ Al Fork/Carbon Fork, and Carbon/Carbon. The narrow tires are horrible, except on excellent roads, of which there are a few. The 650b tires are nearly the best thing I've ever put on a bike, with the possible exception of a seat that fits my butt. They glide on bad chipseal, where my riding companions chatter their cables and teeth. They're ok on everything this side of singletrack. The Al/Carbon bike still feels a little dead, and it doesn't really reward high power spinning, which I attribute to the heavy stiff frame and the carbon fork. The Tandem just feels alive riding, and you can see the fork flexing over road noise. It's got a quality of ride that just isn't there with the other bikes. My next bike is going to be Steel with a pretty flexy fork, and probably a pretty noodly steel frame at that. (Looking at a Crust Canti Lightning Bolt or best match, if I can ever get one). It'll have 42mm tires minimum, and maybe 48's if they will fit with fenders. I'm not racing, I'm riding alone or with friends, not super long nor super fast, but 60->100mi at 16-18mph depending on terrain, wind, and fitness levels.