5 ms·

Not even when you knew about the law and its requirements, violating their own university policies, having professors committing fraud by attesting their course

Not even when you knew about the law and its requirements, violating their own university policies, having professors committing fraud by attesting their course materials were accessible, etc? Read the DoJ findings below, Berkeley is not a victim here in my opinion. Regardless, no one said Berkeley had to take the videos down. They chose to do that on their own because it was too “expensive” to make them accessible. However, I did not see Berkeley turning down federal funding, which is in part why they are legally required to make their courses accessible (Section 504, for those wondering). Funny how that stuff works. https://www.ada.gov/briefs/uc_berkley_lof.pdf https://www.ada.gov/briefs/uc_berkley_lof.pdf

jjeaff 6y ago
Sounds to me like the way the law is enforced should change then. There should be a fine for not following the law if the content is removed or not updated. If the fine is sufficiently high, then there will be no incentive to just remove the content. There will still be a disincentive to create it in the first place, but at least existing content won't disappear.
- bladegash 6y ago
  I agree with you, since unfortunately the only real way to enforce the ADA is through private citizens filing civil suit. Regardless, a lack of more effective means for enforcement does not absolve Berkeley of failing to follow the law, especially when they had internal resources to make their material accessible and chose not to do so. Edit: apologies, misread your post and that is an interesting approach. Another way is to make the university pay back a portion of the federal funding they received, up to whatever amount they estimate it would take to make the materials accessible.
- monkeywork 6y ago
  This seems like a poor idea. 1. Release content not due to requirement but for general good. 2. Get sued because it's not captioned. 3. Have insufficient funds to caption so you pull material. 4. Get fined for pulling material. 5. Watch as no one does step 1 anymore.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    It's not a requirement for everyone. Just federally funded groups. Also, these, days, I'm pretty sure you can just turn on captioning and youtube will use voice recognition to do a decent job of captioning your video for free.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
I can't speak to any of that, but it strikes me as a separate issue. The question is, if a college professor would like to throw up a recording of their course online for the public benefit, and the school would otherwise be on board, will they be able to do so? Or will the school be concerned about getting sued because the video doesn't have subtitles? Adding subtitles to many hours of lectures which will be posted for free is not a reasonable request. So of course what will happen instead is the videos will never be posted. If this scenario isn't actually plausible, feel free to correct me.
- medhir 6y ago
  Are you suggesting that Berkeley doesn’t have the resources to properly add audio transcripts to their course content? It really feels like the Overton window on disability rights has shifted in the wrong direction. Just because it’s free, the university has certain obligations from taking federal funding. These laws have been put into place in order to ensure disabled people have equal access to these educational systems. One way to solve this would have been for Berkeley to charge a nominal fee (perhaps for a limited time as “early access” or similar) that could then be used to pay people that can transcribe the audio. Instead, a lack of imagination and a lack of empathy leads to these resources being removed, a net loss for everyone.
- bladegash 6y ago
  The courses are not free, they are paid for, in large part, by the federal government and the state. California did not back then, but they now have their own legislation known as the Unruh Civil Rights Act and of course there’s the ADA/Rehabilitation Act. Here’s the kicker - they have to do this whether it is posted publicly or not. The legal requirement does not only apply to public material, but to ALL material and the material still exists/can be accessed with Berkeley credentials. It also applies to future material produced that is used with students/in classes. My guess is, they had to make it accessible regardless and did this out of spite. They had internal resources to help with this but chose not to do so/made it really expensive because of the volume due to not doing it in the first place. It is kind of like Cybersecurity - people don’t like to spend the money until they have a breach, where it’s much more expensive to remediate and their costs would be much more manageable/risk reduced has they done it “right” the entire time. My mother is a professor in the CSU system and I will say California public universities are beginning to take this much more seriously now, largely because of lawsuits.

jjeaff 6y ago

Sounds to me like the way the law is enforced should change then. There should be a fine for not following the law if the content is removed or not updated. If the fine is sufficiently high, then there will be no incentive to just remove the content. There will still be a disincentive to create it in the first place, but at least existing content won't disappear.

bladegash 6y ago
I agree with you, since unfortunately the only real way to enforce the ADA is through private citizens filing civil suit. Regardless, a lack of more effective means for enforcement does not absolve Berkeley of failing to follow the law, especially when they had internal resources to make their material accessible and chose not to do so. Edit: apologies, misread your post and that is an interesting approach. Another way is to make the university pay back a portion of the federal funding they received, up to whatever amount they estimate it would take to make the materials accessible.
monkeywork 6y ago
This seems like a poor idea. 1. Release content not due to requirement but for general good. 2. Get sued because it's not captioned. 3. Have insufficient funds to caption so you pull material. 4. Get fined for pulling material. 5. Watch as no one does step 1 anymore.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  It's not a requirement for everyone. Just federally funded groups. Also, these, days, I'm pretty sure you can just turn on captioning and youtube will use voice recognition to do a decent job of captioning your video for free.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

I can't speak to any of that, but it strikes me as a separate issue. The question is, if a college professor would like to throw up a recording of their course online for the public benefit, and the school would otherwise be on board, will they be able to do so? Or will the school be concerned about getting sued because the video doesn't have subtitles? Adding subtitles to many hours of lectures which will be posted for free is not a reasonable request. So of course what will happen instead is the videos will never be posted. If this scenario isn't actually plausible, feel free to correct me.

medhir 6y ago
Are you suggesting that Berkeley doesn’t have the resources to properly add audio transcripts to their course content? It really feels like the Overton window on disability rights has shifted in the wrong direction. Just because it’s free, the university has certain obligations from taking federal funding. These laws have been put into place in order to ensure disabled people have equal access to these educational systems. One way to solve this would have been for Berkeley to charge a nominal fee (perhaps for a limited time as “early access” or similar) that could then be used to pay people that can transcribe the audio. Instead, a lack of imagination and a lack of empathy leads to these resources being removed, a net loss for everyone.
bladegash 6y ago
The courses are not free, they are paid for, in large part, by the federal government and the state. California did not back then, but they now have their own legislation known as the Unruh Civil Rights Act and of course there’s the ADA/Rehabilitation Act. Here’s the kicker - they have to do this whether it is posted publicly or not. The legal requirement does not only apply to public material, but to ALL material and the material still exists/can be accessed with Berkeley credentials. It also applies to future material produced that is used with students/in classes. My guess is, they had to make it accessible regardless and did this out of spite. They had internal resources to help with this but chose not to do so/made it really expensive because of the volume due to not doing it in the first place. It is kind of like Cybersecurity - people don’t like to spend the money until they have a breach, where it’s much more expensive to remediate and their costs would be much more manageable/risk reduced has they done it “right” the entire time. My mother is a professor in the CSU system and I will say California public universities are beginning to take this much more seriously now, largely because of lawsuits.