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Your "hunch" is wrong. Here's the letter sent by LTC worker organizations immediately upon learning of Cuomo's deadly order on 3/25 to discharge recovered elder

Your "hunch" is wrong. Here's the letter sent by LTC worker organizations immediately upon learning of Cuomo's deadly order on 3/25 to discharge recovered elderly Covid cases to nursing homes: https://paltc.org/sites/default/files/AMDA-AHCA-NCAL%20Statement%20on%20State%20Advisories%20FINAL.pdf https://paltc.org/sites/default/files/AMDA-AHCA-NCAL%20State... Any fool by that point in March knew that the virus was highly transmissible. Nursing homes and LTCs did not have extra staff or isolation wards, sanitarium-level protection — but they could have. Funds wasted on the Mercy ship and Javits Center, which were barely used, should have been spent on isolation. Civilian mask mandates have nothing to do with this, but even with N95s, nosocomial spread is a problem in hospitals, never mind nursing homes. NY intake was mixing known-infected with unknown-status/no-symptoms patients. This too was not a case of being "caught off guard". It was negligent or worse, and it relates to vent overuse.

jariel 6y ago
LTCs are like hotels with under-paid immigrants changing diapers. Of course they knew 'there was a transmissable virus' - but what does that mean? "Nursing homes and LTCs did not have extra staff or isolation wards, sanitarium-level protection" How? With what money? Who is going to mandate it? Who is going to 'hire a bunch of new, trained staff immediately'? This would bankrupt Private LTCs and the Public one's had no access to funds. How does the mid-level manager of an LTC have the knowledge or ability to come up with emergency protocols? These hotels were not prepared, they responded with PPE, by isolating workers to floors and residents, they increased testing, closed of visitors - and possibly, as you say did something about the air ventilation. .. and masks were one part of the policy ... ... and now it seems they have it mostly under control.
- BrendanEich 6y ago
  > How? With the money blown on Javits, Mercy Ship, Seattle field hospital that went utterly unused, etc. Lots of money was spent last spring: https://patch.com/new-york/harrison/new-york-coronavirus-state-oks-40-million-emergency-spending https://patch.com/new-york/harrison/new-york-coronavirus-sta... is one link. I've been through this line of argument before. First it was "no one knew" (just a hunch). When I produce evidence in the form of that letter from PALTC et al., the argument shifts to "nothing could have been done" — at the same time that tens of millions were misspent on underused or unused facilities. Public spending went way up, including (Newsom's $1B rip off) on masks. Why are you so keen to feign helplessness and avoid accountability? Trump family taxpayer rip-offs get and deserve condemnation, but it's ok when Cuomo or Newsom does it? A pox on all of them.
dboreham 6y ago
I see masks as having two distinct purposes : 1. To protect me and my family members when we need to enter a "hot" area such as a virus-denier-owned business or other place with large numbers of people and poor ventilation. We use best available N95 type masks (KN95 for example are widely available now) for this purpose. 2. as a signal I can read from other people as to whether or not they take virus spread mitigation measures seriously. So if I see someone not wearing a mask in a store, I can reasonably assume that person is more likely to transmit the virus. Not because the mask they're not wearing is not effective, but because the lack of mask tells me that they probably mix with other people, frequent places with large numbers of other people, are friends with people who don't take quarantine seriously, and so on. So even if masks had zero effectiveness for virus transmission, they're still very useful to me in identifying people and places to avoid.
- BrendanEich 6y ago
  I agree with both of these as good personal policy in mixed indoor settings. I reject "virus denier" as bait. Look at Newsom and the many other hypocrites caught in flagrante maskless. They were not denying the virus exists in their public words, but their nominally private deeds said something about their sense of relative risks that doesn't fit your cult-like "denier" language.
  - dboreham 6y ago
    Ok, I admit there are "virus-lazy" people as well as virus deniers. I'm in Montana and here I believe it's a reasonable assumption that someone without a mark in a mask-required scenario is a denier, based on my f2f (outside!) discussions with people. Many deniers. Full blown FoxNews regurgitation.
    - BrendanEich 6y ago
      Newsom may be lazy or not, but his mask-free dinner out didn’t show sloth, it showed corruption and lack of concern (probably in part based on him being young and fit enough to have low risk per the CDC age-grouped IFR table). What are your neighbors denying, exactly?

jariel 6y ago

LTCs are like hotels with under-paid immigrants changing diapers. Of course they knew 'there was a transmissable virus' - but what does that mean? "Nursing homes and LTCs did not have extra staff or isolation wards, sanitarium-level protection" How? With what money? Who is going to mandate it? Who is going to 'hire a bunch of new, trained staff immediately'? This would bankrupt Private LTCs and the Public one's had no access to funds. How does the mid-level manager of an LTC have the knowledge or ability to come up with emergency protocols? These hotels were not prepared, they responded with PPE, by isolating workers to floors and residents, they increased testing, closed of visitors - and possibly, as you say did something about the air ventilation. .. and masks were one part of the policy ... ... and now it seems they have it mostly under control.

BrendanEich 6y ago
> How? With the money blown on Javits, Mercy Ship, Seattle field hospital that went utterly unused, etc. Lots of money was spent last spring: https://patch.com/new-york/harrison/new-york-coronavirus-state-oks-40-million-emergency-spending https://patch.com/new-york/harrison/new-york-coronavirus-sta... is one link. I've been through this line of argument before. First it was "no one knew" (just a hunch). When I produce evidence in the form of that letter from PALTC et al., the argument shifts to "nothing could have been done" — at the same time that tens of millions were misspent on underused or unused facilities. Public spending went way up, including (Newsom's $1B rip off) on masks. Why are you so keen to feign helplessness and avoid accountability? Trump family taxpayer rip-offs get and deserve condemnation, but it's ok when Cuomo or Newsom does it? A pox on all of them.

dboreham 6y ago

I see masks as having two distinct purposes : 1. To protect me and my family members when we need to enter a "hot" area such as a virus-denier-owned business or other place with large numbers of people and poor ventilation. We use best available N95 type masks (KN95 for example are widely available now) for this purpose. 2. as a signal I can read from other people as to whether or not they take virus spread mitigation measures seriously. So if I see someone not wearing a mask in a store, I can reasonably assume that person is more likely to transmit the virus. Not because the mask they're not wearing is not effective, but because the lack of mask tells me that they probably mix with other people, frequent places with large numbers of other people, are friends with people who don't take quarantine seriously, and so on. So even if masks had zero effectiveness for virus transmission, they're still very useful to me in identifying people and places to avoid.

BrendanEich 6y ago
I agree with both of these as good personal policy in mixed indoor settings. I reject "virus denier" as bait. Look at Newsom and the many other hypocrites caught in flagrante maskless. They were not denying the virus exists in their public words, but their nominally private deeds said something about their sense of relative risks that doesn't fit your cult-like "denier" language.
- dboreham 6y ago
  Ok, I admit there are "virus-lazy" people as well as virus deniers. I'm in Montana and here I believe it's a reasonable assumption that someone without a mark in a mask-required scenario is a denier, based on my f2f (outside!) discussions with people. Many deniers. Full blown FoxNews regurgitation.
  - BrendanEich 6y ago
    Newsom may be lazy or not, but his mask-free dinner out didn’t show sloth, it showed corruption and lack of concern (probably in part based on him being young and fit enough to have low risk per the CDC age-grouped IFR table). What are your neighbors denying, exactly?