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This article tries really hard to conflate conservatism with fascism
by sawjet 6y ago
This article tries really hard to conflate conservatism with fascism
- kar5pt 6y agoIs there even a difference anymore? The only mainstream "conservative" party in America just acquitted a former politician who lead a mob to riot at the Capital. "Conservatives" are either implicitly supporting fascism or they're so detatched from the major political agents that they're politically insignificant.
- joemazerino 6y agoYes there is.
- jacob2484 6y agoSo you're complicit in the violence and deaths the BLM protests have caused? Yes there is a difference
- kaonashi 6y agoThe violence was 99% the cops beating on people, so not really, no.
- waych 6y agoDid the cops destroy all burn all those building and destroy all those businesses? Not really, no.
- kaonashi 6y agoMoving the goal post from violence to property damage?
- waych 6y agoBurning and looting are violent, just like murder.
- kaonashi 6y agono, they are categorically different
- waych 6y agovi·o·lence /ˈvī(ə)ləns/ noun behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
- kaonashi 6y agoif your definition places injuries to human beings in the same category as damage to things, then your definition is just an excuse to do violence on people
- waych 6y agoDamage to things damages people. This is hard for communists to understand, as they don't believe in private property. You can't have freedom and liberty without the security of private property. Learn some history.
- kaonashi 6y agoPrivate property is by definition a limit on freedom -- it's always a trade-off. Slave societies were always obsessed with protecting their freedoms.
- z9e 6y agoThere is a difference. Fascism is originally defined as national socialism by Mussolini. What Republicans do you see advocating for any such thing? Under actual Fascism, private ownership of businesses was allowed, but the government limited the profits they could make. Point me to where Republicans are trying to limit the amount of profits any company in the US can make. If the comparison is totalitarian tendencies, you have a lot of effort to go through to frame this as a one sided problem as both sides exhibit such time to time. The only thing conservatives and Fascists have in common is they are nationalist at this point, that's it. The constant throwing around of the Fascist label upon the right wing in this country is so disconnected from reality, as someone who loves history it makes me cringe to no end.
- krapp 6y ago"If it doesn't come from the Fascist region of Italy then it's just sparkling white supremacy." Wait until you learn that "Nazi" doesn't always explicitly refer to a member of the German National Socialist party.
- yurielt 6y agoNobody said that it does or has to do in that exact form but at this point some people want to be to loose in order to make a dishonest picture of anyone to the right of Mao
- mhh__ 6y agoI wouldn't associate the american right with fascism in the abstract but I think anyone who believes that Trump himself didn't at very least have some deeply worrying fascist-ic tendencies is kidding themselves: The ethno-nationalism, the distaste for democracy, the love of "powerful" men like Kim and Putin etc - the list is long and the signs were there from day 0. That's not "ooh you're a fascist now let me drink my starbucks"-fascism, but actual, dangerous, fascism that slips through the cracks - the US effectively came within one arbitrary vote in congress of ignoring an election result: If someone less inept than Trump comes along one day and tries I suspect it'll be a slam dunk in the land of the free. Counterargue my friends, facts don't care about your feelings
- _-david-_ 6y agoYou really should step away from the internet and actually talk to a regular conservative.
- esotericimpl 6y agoSuch as who? Ted Cruz? Face it, when conservatives chose fascism over democracy the game was over for them. There’s no going back after supporting insurrectionists.
- redis_mlc 6y ago> a former politician who lead a mob to riot at the Capital. Not a word you wrote is true. Trump was a sitting President, and the riot started before the end of his speech. His tweets for peace were deleted by twitter. (Pelosi refused to pay for Capitol Hill security before the large rally.) The only insurrection was the 8-months of city burning endorsed by the DNC. Why isn't Pelosi on trial yet?
- wilsynet 6y agoBecause she didn’t endorse a riot and neither did she endorse that cities should be burned. It’s utterly breathtaking how much Trump lies. But in your worldview, he’s the victim.
- rayiner 6y agoTrump didn’t endorse a riot either. And at the time of his speech, the pro-Trump protests after the election had been peaceful, to many people’s surprise. (DC had geared up for violence after the election, with plywood covering the windows, and until November 6 nothing happened.) I think Trump should have gotten impeached back in December for continuing to deny the legitimacy of the election after losing his legal challenges. But saying he incited the riot was an extremely tenuous charge.
- krapp 6y agoThe rioters clearly believed that they were doing what Trump wanted and following his desires if not his explicit orders - that impression didn't come from nowhere, it came from months of his encouragement and sympathy with with a deranged conspiracy theory provided by Trump himself. There are clearly implications in Trump's rhetoric that mere peaceful protest would not be enough: “We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore, and that is what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal. … “You will have an illegitimate president. That is what you will have, and we can’t let that happen. These are the facts that you won’t hear from the fake news media. It’s all part of the suppression effort. They don’t want to talk about it. They don’t want to talk about it. … “We fight like hell, and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.” And there is also the content of his now deleted tweet after the fact where he appeared to justify the violence and praise those who committed it[0], and his phone call with House minority leader Kevin McCarthy on the 6th where Trump actually seemed to be smug about it[1]. And yes, in the deleted tweet he told people to "go home with love and peace," but that's hardly a condemnation of their actions. [0]https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/1346954970910707712.jpg https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/13469549... [1]https://thehill.com/homenews/house/538714-trump-told-mccarthy-that-rioters-more-upset-about-the-election-than-you-are https://thehill.com/homenews/house/538714-trump-told-mccarth... Maybe it doesn't rise to a strict legal definition of incitement, but the narrative being painted in his defense of there being no causal relationship between Trump and the riots, that he simply wanted law and order and peace, is clearly specious.
- Veen 6y agoIt endorses the unfortunate habit of collapsing distinctions on both the left and the right. In truth, although conservatives have occasionally aligned with fascists for pragmatic reasons and because they do share some values, they are not the same. When fascists come to power, conservatives are usually supressed; all conservative political parties were banned in Nazi Germany, for example. Anti-Nazi conservatives were among the victims of the Night of the Long Knives. Friedrich Reck-Malleczewen's Diary of a Man in Despair provides useful insight into how conservatives of the era viewed Nazis. He died in Dachau in 1945. The point people are miss is that Post-18th Century conservatism is a shade of liberalism in the broadest sense (not progressivism though), whereas fascism is resolutely anti-liberal. That said, right-of-center political parties contain lots of people who aren't remotely conservative: radical pro-market capitalists, libertarians, and the occasional fascist. They might all refer to themselves as conservatives, but that doesn't mean they are.
- orf 6y agoConservatives: not fascists, just #1 with fascists
- nicbou 6y agoIn a two horse race
- vanusa 6y agoWhich is perfectly understandable given how hard conservatives have worked to ingratiate themselves with fascists of various stripes, in recent years