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>"Easton, manufacturer of aluminum bike frame tubes, began using the technology to make lighter, stronger tube sets than anyone else on the market. Scandium wo

>"Easton, manufacturer of aluminum bike frame tubes, began using the technology to make lighter, stronger tube sets than anyone else on the market. Scandium works by convincing aluminum molecules to restructure themselves. When aluminum is smelted it hardens into microscopic grains that fit together to make a solid architecture. Scandium makes those grains smaller, among other things, which allows them to fit closer together for a denser, stronger overall structure. Scandium also interrupts melted aluminum crystalizing at a molecular level when the metal cools. This means that the properties of the alloy are less likely to be affected by heat-treatment and welding, so a scandium-infused aluminum alloy is less likely to crack while cooling. This is especially valuable in high-strength aluminum, like 7005 alloy. Traditionally, 7005 alloys make light, strong, forged or CNC machined bicycle components, but can't be welded because they weaken when they melt. By adding scandium to the tube or to the filler between welded tubes, melted 7005 aluminum becomes usable in welded components, like frames. So, at a chemical level, aluminum alloys infused with scandium (less than 0.5% by volume) are stronger and more weldable than scandium-free alloys." PDS: There probably is a whole series of things, as of yet unknown, that can be added to metals and other elements, while they are cooling (or perhaps heating), to imbue them with various interesting properties... Opinion: Modern-day metallurgy and metallurgical sciences, though its knowledge is formidable in this area -- has probably just "scratched the surface" of all that is possible... In other words, experimentation, much more future experimentation -- is required in this area...

jacquesm 6y ago
Second your opinion, if you look at the state of the art vs what was considered impossible only a decade ago there is a very large amount of knowledge waiting to be discovered here. I believe you could even generalize that to all of materials science.
mywacaday 6y ago
Are there and good resources on an introduction to metallurgy for someone with 0 background in the subject?
yiyus 6y ago
> There probably is a whole series of things, as of yet unknown, that can be added to metals and other elements, while they are cooling (or perhaps heating), to imbue them with various interesting properties... We know. The field of materials science is perfectly aware of these effects. We even have a quite good theoretical knowledge to explain almost everything, and some very good models built on that knowledge. I would even say that more research into new alloys is performed by modelling techniques than experimentation nowadays (for sure, this is the case now, with many labs and universities closed because of corona). New alloys are constantly being studied. We perform experiments, we run simulations, we have AI frameworks running thousands of those simulations... However, you have to take into account that the metallurgical industry has a huge inertia. We can make pretty good steel and aluminum alloys at a very cheap cost. The market for new ideas is not easy. You can maybe make some profit from high-end sports or medical equipment, but it is very difficult to make a new alloy profitable at a large industrial level.
- peter_d_sherman 6y ago
  >"We know." I know you know(!) <g>, but there's an interesting related discussion here about "New Skool Metallurgy/Material Science" vs. "Really Old Skool Metallurgy/Material Science"... New Skool Metallurgy/Material Science -- is what you've alluded to, "we have AI frameworks running thousands of those simulations". Well, there's nothing wrong with that! In fact, if I had the ability to run thousands of metallurgy/material science AI simulations, I probably would! (unless I had a higher need to use the compute power to run simulations in some other area of science or physics, which I currently don't! <g>) So if I had the means and ability to do so, I would probably be doing that! But that's "New Skool Metallurgy/Material Science" Let's talk about "Really Old Skool Metallurgy/Material Science" for a moment... You see, if we want to understand metals, I mean, really understand them (hey, remember that scene about "Transparent Aluminum" in Star Trek IV?), we first want to ask a philosophical question, and that question is, "What is the common denominator between all metals?" ? Is that atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons, ions, or any of the alphabet stew of sub-particles? Well, yes, but, that really doesn't really help our understanding... So, let's ask the question again: "What is the common denominator between all metals?" They're all shiny, they're all heavy (relative to other elements), some of them are really strong? Again, that doesn't really help our understanding... let's try again! Let's use a different kind of reasoning this time! Let's use the most general logic we can find! OK, so here we go again: "What is the common denominator between all metals?" Hmmm, well, let's see... The most general thing we know about metals (with the possible exception of mercury!) is that at room temperature, they're all solid. OK, so that's a good start! It doesn't tell us that much (yet), but it's consistent with logic, so it's a good starting point! So what else, other than metals, are solid? Well, we know that glass is, and we know that water can become solid (ice), just at low temperatures (but this is also true for mercury!) OK, still doesn't tell us much, but so good so far! So, to continue... wait a second now, if mercury can become solid at low temperature -- then can't metals become liquid at high temperatures? Well yes they can! So now if water is a substance which is liquid at specific temperatures, and solid at others, then what is the difference (other than the temperature range at which this happens) between water and metals? ? Well, we might say that metals are typically pure elements, and that water is a chemical compound of two of them (H2O), and that they're completely different, and leave it at that. But let's suppose that we didn't say that. Here's the thing. What do we know about water, when it freezes? We know it turns to ice. And what do we know about ice? We know that it's a crystal. So from this logic chain, and via logic, we finally introduce the $64,000 question: Are all metals -- crystals ? ? Even though they aren't clear like glass is, could they all be... crystals? (With Mercury excepted for the time being?) Hmmm... well, I don't know... but there's something, something here! You see, everything, everything that I have been able to logically deduce about metals -- tells me that all of them, all of them (including mercury, but it's not proven!) -- are in fact crystals !!! Now, let's go for the jugular vein in understanding all of this... We do this by asking the following question (you'll notice the pattern immediately I suspect!) "What do all crystals have in common?" For this one, I'll cut to the chase: All crystals (and there are many, many crystalline patterns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_structure)) represent THE SUBDIVISION OF SPACE. More specifically, the subdivision of space by FORCE. In other words, at the lowest level (before we get to atoms or subparticles) there are regions of FORCE -- surrounded by regions of SPACE -- in various different mathematical PATTERNS. PATTERNS OF FORCE IN SPACE Now, you see, modern science ("New Skool") -- while it is starting to understand this -- does not and cannot (yet) understand all of the possibilities (again yet) for those possible patterns. But that's what's going on. You see, if someone were to really study the subject, they'd not only need to understand metallurgy, but also crystallography, 3D math, patterns, etc., etc., a variety of interlapping areas and disciplines... And, even so, they would (as I alluded to before) only have "scratched the surface" -- of what might truly be possible. Also, with respect to profitability... well, yes, everybody needs money to put bread on the table and feed their family, no arguments here! But if someone really was interested in this, they'd experiment with it, that is, "do it for the sake of doing it" rather than trying to make money in the process... that will be me or someone like me in the future, or so I hope... What's the thing that Yoda said? "Do or do not do, there is no try..." Well, in my case now, it's "think about" or "do not think about", since there is no smelting equipment nor simulator available, to me at least! <g> Anyway, wishing you well on your future metallurgical/material science quests!
jj669 6y ago
So much with metals is about how the material is processed (forged, extruded, heat treated, etc.). With newer technologies like 3D-printing, because of the very high cooling/freezing rates int he processing, even more Scandium (>0.7%) can be added, and even more strength gained, while still being very ductile (it'll tend to dent rather than cracking when abused). Maybe this will be the 'new Scandium' material to take on the carbon frames. Might need to get cheaper though... https://www.apworks.de/scalmalloy https://www.apworks.de/scalmalloy

jacquesm 6y ago

Second your opinion, if you look at the state of the art vs what was considered impossible only a decade ago there is a very large amount of knowledge waiting to be discovered here. I believe you could even generalize that to all of materials science.

mywacaday 6y ago

Are there and good resources on an introduction to metallurgy for someone with 0 background in the subject?

yiyus 6y ago

> There probably is a whole series of things, as of yet unknown, that can be added to metals and other elements, while they are cooling (or perhaps heating), to imbue them with various interesting properties... We know. The field of materials science is perfectly aware of these effects. We even have a quite good theoretical knowledge to explain almost everything, and some very good models built on that knowledge. I would even say that more research into new alloys is performed by modelling techniques than experimentation nowadays (for sure, this is the case now, with many labs and universities closed because of corona). New alloys are constantly being studied. We perform experiments, we run simulations, we have AI frameworks running thousands of those simulations... However, you have to take into account that the metallurgical industry has a huge inertia. We can make pretty good steel and aluminum alloys at a very cheap cost. The market for new ideas is not easy. You can maybe make some profit from high-end sports or medical equipment, but it is very difficult to make a new alloy profitable at a large industrial level.

peter_d_sherman 6y ago
>"We know." I know you know(!) <g>, but there's an interesting related discussion here about "New Skool Metallurgy/Material Science" vs. "Really Old Skool Metallurgy/Material Science"... New Skool Metallurgy/Material Science -- is what you've alluded to, "we have AI frameworks running thousands of those simulations". Well, there's nothing wrong with that! In fact, if I had the ability to run thousands of metallurgy/material science AI simulations, I probably would! (unless I had a higher need to use the compute power to run simulations in some other area of science or physics, which I currently don't! <g>) So if I had the means and ability to do so, I would probably be doing that! But that's "New Skool Metallurgy/Material Science" Let's talk about "Really Old Skool Metallurgy/Material Science" for a moment... You see, if we want to understand metals, I mean, really understand them (hey, remember that scene about "Transparent Aluminum" in Star Trek IV?), we first want to ask a philosophical question, and that question is, "What is the common denominator between all metals?" ? Is that atoms, protons, neutrons, electrons, ions, or any of the alphabet stew of sub-particles? Well, yes, but, that really doesn't really help our understanding... So, let's ask the question again: "What is the common denominator between all metals?" They're all shiny, they're all heavy (relative to other elements), some of them are really strong? Again, that doesn't really help our understanding... let's try again! Let's use a different kind of reasoning this time! Let's use the most general logic we can find! OK, so here we go again: "What is the common denominator between all metals?" Hmmm, well, let's see... The most general thing we know about metals (with the possible exception of mercury!) is that at room temperature, they're all solid. OK, so that's a good start! It doesn't tell us that much (yet), but it's consistent with logic, so it's a good starting point! So what else, other than metals, are solid? Well, we know that glass is, and we know that water can become solid (ice), just at low temperatures (but this is also true for mercury!) OK, still doesn't tell us much, but so good so far! So, to continue... wait a second now, if mercury can become solid at low temperature -- then can't metals become liquid at high temperatures? Well yes they can! So now if water is a substance which is liquid at specific temperatures, and solid at others, then what is the difference (other than the temperature range at which this happens) between water and metals? ? Well, we might say that metals are typically pure elements, and that water is a chemical compound of two of them (H2O), and that they're completely different, and leave it at that. But let's suppose that we didn't say that. Here's the thing. What do we know about water, when it freezes? We know it turns to ice. And what do we know about ice? We know that it's a crystal. So from this logic chain, and via logic, we finally introduce the $64,000 question: Are all metals -- crystals ? ? Even though they aren't clear like glass is, could they all be... crystals? (With Mercury excepted for the time being?) Hmmm... well, I don't know... but there's something, something here! You see, everything, everything that I have been able to logically deduce about metals -- tells me that all of them, all of them (including mercury, but it's not proven!) -- are in fact crystals !!! Now, let's go for the jugular vein in understanding all of this... We do this by asking the following question (you'll notice the pattern immediately I suspect!) "What do all crystals have in common?" For this one, I'll cut to the chase: All crystals (and there are many, many crystalline patterns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_structure)) represent THE SUBDIVISION OF SPACE. More specifically, the subdivision of space by FORCE. In other words, at the lowest level (before we get to atoms or subparticles) there are regions of FORCE -- surrounded by regions of SPACE -- in various different mathematical PATTERNS. PATTERNS OF FORCE IN SPACE Now, you see, modern science ("New Skool") -- while it is starting to understand this -- does not and cannot (yet) understand all of the possibilities (again yet) for those possible patterns. But that's what's going on. You see, if someone were to really study the subject, they'd not only need to understand metallurgy, but also crystallography, 3D math, patterns, etc., etc., a variety of interlapping areas and disciplines... And, even so, they would (as I alluded to before) only have "scratched the surface" -- of what might truly be possible. Also, with respect to profitability... well, yes, everybody needs money to put bread on the table and feed their family, no arguments here! But if someone really was interested in this, they'd experiment with it, that is, "do it for the sake of doing it" rather than trying to make money in the process... that will be me or someone like me in the future, or so I hope... What's the thing that Yoda said? "Do or do not do, there is no try..." Well, in my case now, it's "think about" or "do not think about", since there is no smelting equipment nor simulator available, to me at least! <g> Anyway, wishing you well on your future metallurgical/material science quests!

jj669 6y ago

So much with metals is about how the material is processed (forged, extruded, heat treated, etc.). With newer technologies like 3D-printing, because of the very high cooling/freezing rates int he processing, even more Scandium (>0.7%) can be added, and even more strength gained, while still being very ductile (it'll tend to dent rather than cracking when abused). Maybe this will be the 'new Scandium' material to take on the carbon frames. Might need to get cheaper though... https://www.apworks.de/scalmalloy https://www.apworks.de/scalmalloy