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Daigou shoppers did buy up all over-the-counter masks in January and February, for some strange reason :-/. Amazon N95 and hazmat stocks ran low in those months

Daigou shoppers did buy up all over-the-counter masks in January and February, for some strange reason :-/. Amazon N95 and hazmat stocks ran low in those months too: https://www.junglescout.com/blog/coronavirus/ https://www.junglescout.com/blog/coronavirus/ Purell and water bottles ran short and gougers gouged. By March when Fauci spoke against mask mandates, civilian-mandated mask supply chains had recovered. We bought a bunch then without trouble. But early shortages and gouging for various products are all beside the point. Mandates on civilians that passed in March and April by county and state health orders were for people to wear polypropylene and cloth masks, not N95s or hazmat suits. Cloth and polyprop are not used by HCWs, and Fauci was not saying "yes" to people wearing those mandated kinds of masks, while saying "no" to people buying N95s. He was saying no to masks, period, full stop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06a4RriBrhg&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06a4RriBrhg&feature=emb_logo He gave the same long-standard talking points against mass masking that the WHO and CDC, as well as the US Surgeon General, had made.

jariel 6y ago
So there are some things that are 'slightly off' in your statement, enough to cause some odd conclusions - especially in the context of public communications. With respect to timing, there was no pandemic in January, we're not going to see 'public fear and pandemonium' until it hits home, which wasn't until March. It wasn't until this point could there have been a true run on anything at least in the US. The delineation between HCW PPE and 'civilian' PPE is basically moot: both N95 and surgical masks are widely used by civilians and HC. Given the above, if there were any real impetus by 'the nations top doctor' to buy masks there would have been a massive run on all kinds of masks. The reason that 'you are able to buy something' is precisely because the policy was 'masks are not important'. Understand that in 2020 (and arguably today), nobody knew the difference between the various kinds of masks. 'N95' was not in the public lexicon. Masks are Masks. If the 1/2 of Americans that seem to be concerned about COVID felt that they needed masks, they would have bought them. It would be impossible for Dr. Fauci or anyone else to say: "Buy this kind of mask over here, but that other kind of mask, don't worry about that, you don't need it" - this is beyond the threshold of complexity of something you can effectively message to 350 Million people. The amount of pricing pressure etc. would have made it clearly more difficult for HCW around the world to get access to much of the gear they needed - we know this because even without face masks doctrine, there were a lot of shortages. Doctors in many facilities were resigned to having to re-use a lot of gear - including masks. If there were a public stampede for those masks, they would have had critical shortages that would have materially affected outcomes. It wasn't until summer 2020, when COVID numbers started to come under control, that 'resource sharing' started to become effective, and that supply chains truly started to be able to handle demand did things start to seem more reasonable. Only in June/July did a lot of HC centres across the nation start to receive major shipments of PPE. At that point 'we made it through Phase 1' - at which time, it started to make sense to make masks part of the public health strategy. So then the communication shifts: they start telling us how great masks are, how they can help us, and that we should wear them. Obviously, this feels disingenuous, but it's not. Given the risk in the system, even in hindsight, it was a perfectly reasonable strategy. Finally, it was not 'Dr. Fauci' - it was the same across the Western world. UK and Canada started mandating in July, France in August.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jariel 6y ago
  Responding to _ketamine: "In my state close to 50% of deaths were attributed to nursing homes. So either N95 wasn't available or healthcare professionals were careless. Either way it led to a lot of deaths." So the problem with this statement is the implied assumption that 'masks are the thing'. They are not 'the thing' just 'one of the things'. LTC homes are very sensitive, we didn't have policies and procedures for protecting everyone. They are not Hospitals with highly paid professionals. They don't always have the best PPE. They know nothing about transmission, procedures etc. and generally have nobody to support them whereas Hospitals are full of smart, connected people. My hunch is that many of them were totally caught off guard, had no idea as to N95 or Surgical, they don't have any special supply chain power, they didn't have testing. They were in a chaos state and realized too late they had major outbreaks in their homes and then reacted - in some cases, too late.
  - BrendanEich 6y ago
    Your "hunch" is wrong. Here's the letter sent by LTC worker organizations immediately upon learning of Cuomo's deadly order on 3/25 to discharge recovered elderly Covid cases to nursing homes: https://paltc.org/sites/default/files/AMDA-AHCA-NCAL%20Statement%20on%20State%20Advisories%20FINAL.pdf https://paltc.org/sites/default/files/AMDA-AHCA-NCAL%20State... Any fool by that point in March knew that the virus was highly transmissible. Nursing homes and LTCs did not have extra staff or isolation wards, sanitarium-level protection — but they could have. Funds wasted on the Mercy ship and Javits Center, which were barely used, should have been spent on isolation. Civilian mask mandates have nothing to do with this, but even with N95s, nosocomial spread is a problem in hospitals, never mind nursing homes. NY intake was mixing known-infected with unknown-status/no-symptoms patients. This too was not a case of being "caught off guard". It was negligent or worse, and it relates to vent overuse.
    - jariel 6y ago
      LTCs are like hotels with under-paid immigrants changing diapers. Of course they knew 'there was a transmissable virus' - but what does that mean? "Nursing homes and LTCs did not have extra staff or isolation wards, sanitarium-level protection" How? With what money? Who is going to mandate it? Who is going to 'hire a bunch of new, trained staff immediately'? This would bankrupt Private LTCs and the Public one's had no access to funds. How does the mid-level manager of an LTC have the knowledge or ability to come up with emergency protocols? These hotels were not prepared, they responded with PPE, by isolating workers to floors and residents, they increased testing, closed of visitors - and possibly, as you say did something about the air ventilation. .. and masks were one part of the policy ... ... and now it seems they have it mostly under control.

jariel 6y ago

So there are some things that are 'slightly off' in your statement, enough to cause some odd conclusions - especially in the context of public communications. With respect to timing, there was no pandemic in January, we're not going to see 'public fear and pandemonium' until it hits home, which wasn't until March. It wasn't until this point could there have been a true run on anything at least in the US. The delineation between HCW PPE and 'civilian' PPE is basically moot: both N95 and surgical masks are widely used by civilians and HC. Given the above, if there were any real impetus by 'the nations top doctor' to buy masks there would have been a massive run on all kinds of masks. The reason that 'you are able to buy something' is precisely because the policy was 'masks are not important'. Understand that in 2020 (and arguably today), nobody knew the difference between the various kinds of masks. 'N95' was not in the public lexicon. Masks are Masks. If the 1/2 of Americans that seem to be concerned about COVID felt that they needed masks, they would have bought them. It would be impossible for Dr. Fauci or anyone else to say: "Buy this kind of mask over here, but that other kind of mask, don't worry about that, you don't need it" - this is beyond the threshold of complexity of something you can effectively message to 350 Million people. The amount of pricing pressure etc. would have made it clearly more difficult for HCW around the world to get access to much of the gear they needed - we know this because even without face masks doctrine, there were a lot of shortages. Doctors in many facilities were resigned to having to re-use a lot of gear - including masks. If there were a public stampede for those masks, they would have had critical shortages that would have materially affected outcomes. It wasn't until summer 2020, when COVID numbers started to come under control, that 'resource sharing' started to become effective, and that supply chains truly started to be able to handle demand did things start to seem more reasonable. Only in June/July did a lot of HC centres across the nation start to receive major shipments of PPE. At that point 'we made it through Phase 1' - at which time, it started to make sense to make masks part of the public health strategy. So then the communication shifts: they start telling us how great masks are, how they can help us, and that we should wear them. Obviously, this feels disingenuous, but it's not. Given the risk in the system, even in hindsight, it was a perfectly reasonable strategy. Finally, it was not 'Dr. Fauci' - it was the same across the Western world. UK and Canada started mandating in July, France in August.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jariel 6y ago
Responding to _ketamine: "In my state close to 50% of deaths were attributed to nursing homes. So either N95 wasn't available or healthcare professionals were careless. Either way it led to a lot of deaths." So the problem with this statement is the implied assumption that 'masks are the thing'. They are not 'the thing' just 'one of the things'. LTC homes are very sensitive, we didn't have policies and procedures for protecting everyone. They are not Hospitals with highly paid professionals. They don't always have the best PPE. They know nothing about transmission, procedures etc. and generally have nobody to support them whereas Hospitals are full of smart, connected people. My hunch is that many of them were totally caught off guard, had no idea as to N95 or Surgical, they don't have any special supply chain power, they didn't have testing. They were in a chaos state and realized too late they had major outbreaks in their homes and then reacted - in some cases, too late.
- BrendanEich 6y ago
  Your "hunch" is wrong. Here's the letter sent by LTC worker organizations immediately upon learning of Cuomo's deadly order on 3/25 to discharge recovered elderly Covid cases to nursing homes: https://paltc.org/sites/default/files/AMDA-AHCA-NCAL%20Statement%20on%20State%20Advisories%20FINAL.pdf https://paltc.org/sites/default/files/AMDA-AHCA-NCAL%20State... Any fool by that point in March knew that the virus was highly transmissible. Nursing homes and LTCs did not have extra staff or isolation wards, sanitarium-level protection — but they could have. Funds wasted on the Mercy ship and Javits Center, which were barely used, should have been spent on isolation. Civilian mask mandates have nothing to do with this, but even with N95s, nosocomial spread is a problem in hospitals, never mind nursing homes. NY intake was mixing known-infected with unknown-status/no-symptoms patients. This too was not a case of being "caught off guard". It was negligent or worse, and it relates to vent overuse.
  - jariel 6y ago
    LTCs are like hotels with under-paid immigrants changing diapers. Of course they knew 'there was a transmissable virus' - but what does that mean? "Nursing homes and LTCs did not have extra staff or isolation wards, sanitarium-level protection" How? With what money? Who is going to mandate it? Who is going to 'hire a bunch of new, trained staff immediately'? This would bankrupt Private LTCs and the Public one's had no access to funds. How does the mid-level manager of an LTC have the knowledge or ability to come up with emergency protocols? These hotels were not prepared, they responded with PPE, by isolating workers to floors and residents, they increased testing, closed of visitors - and possibly, as you say did something about the air ventilation. .. and masks were one part of the policy ... ... and now it seems they have it mostly under control.