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Here's how the research went down. First, Brochet gave 27 male and 27 female oenology students a glass of red and a glass of white wine and asked them to descri

Here's how the research went down. First, Brochet gave 27 male and 27 female oenology students a glass of red and a glass of white wine and asked them to describe the flavor of each. The students described the white with terms like "floral," "honey," "peach," and "lemon." The red elicited descriptions of "raspberry," "cherry," "cedar," and "chicory." I think what this study showed is that oenology try to fit the wine in front of themselves into the framework what they have been taught. You see red wine and try to fit it into this limited framework and describe it. I think they were fooled indeed. As a person who likes wine, I simply like to enjoy wine and not to describe it and try to figure out what that smell or taste resembles.

UncleMeat 6y ago
Sure. Only a small portion of people care about trying to analyze wine. But it is useful for selling wine. I like wines with lots of non-fruit flavors. Seeing a description with things I have heard used to describe wines I remember liking is useful. So there is a place for descriptors even if I buy wine to enjoy rather than analyze.
- nojokes 6y ago
  Sure, definitely. I have sold wine in my early adulthood and clients really cared about such things and it is good to have some vocabulary to describe and distinguish different wines. Just what I think this study shows is that you may get stuck in this learned framework and try to apply it based on the appearance of the wine (red|white) and you will bias your judgement based on this. This study setup is clearly adversarial but then again it pointed out a clear weakness in current state of oenology - to understand the wine better, you must eliminate biases.
ogre_codes 6y ago
> As a person who likes wine, I simply like to enjoy wine and not to describe it and try to figure out what that smell or taste resembles. I feel similarly about beer and coffee. I hear people talk about fruity flavors in coffee or other similarly weird descriptions of beer and I taste it and just taste the coffee. I can definitely taste the difference between fairly distinct varieties of coffee (or beer). But when people talk about getting cherry overtones in their coffee, I just shrug and enjoy it.
- nojokes 6y ago
  Usually common beer is, well, common (good as beer but no special tastes, smells). There are of course differences between scale of sweetness, bitterness and so on but rarely something extraordinary. But craft beers have introduced many flavors into the beer world where you can clearly say that some of the beers are fruity etc (because they maybe were fermented with juice instead of pure water etc). Now I again try to just enjoy the beverage but the distinction is much more pronounced. Single malt whiskies are also special case - more similar to the craft beers in their nature - a lot of experimentation and variety and some very distinct smells and tastes. With coffee there is distinct difference between Arabica and Robusta beans but in general I have not felt anything that would distinguish coffee from common beer - maybe I just have not tasted a really special coffee though.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Ok... I'll admit, beer is a terrible example. Though personally I can't tell one IPA from another unless they go really weird (like they have dark IPAs around here). And I vastly prefer stouts.
    - smsm42 6y ago
      I don't drink a lot of beer, especially lately, but I do like to have a different one once in a while, and I certainly can taste the difference between many, and also can get an idea from most descriptions, what "fruity", "nutty", etc. means. That may have come with experience... Through given a beer in a blind test, I probably couldn't write a useful taste profile and if I tried, it would probably come out very embarrassing for me, since I had no training for this, I think given the description I could have if not exact than pretty useful idea of what to expect. Interestingly enough, though I like taste of coffee in general, I have never cared for different sorts, it's all "coffee" for me, though I know people who swear there's a huge difference (and they are not generally pretentious kind so I tend to believe they genuinely think so).
- nojokes 6y ago
  I am currently having Belgian Leffe Brune dark beer and when I force myself to describe it then I could say that I feel coffee overtones. It might be similar to Guinness but it feels more liquid and spicy but in general it is a beer that I just really enjoy.
bordercases 6y ago
> As a person who likes wine, I simply like to enjoy wine and not to describe it and try to figure out what that smell or taste resembles. As a person who likes wine, I enjoy picking apart the taste on my palate and figuring out what it resembles to characterize it.

UncleMeat 6y ago

Sure. Only a small portion of people care about trying to analyze wine. But it is useful for selling wine. I like wines with lots of non-fruit flavors. Seeing a description with things I have heard used to describe wines I remember liking is useful. So there is a place for descriptors even if I buy wine to enjoy rather than analyze.

nojokes 6y ago
Sure, definitely. I have sold wine in my early adulthood and clients really cared about such things and it is good to have some vocabulary to describe and distinguish different wines. Just what I think this study shows is that you may get stuck in this learned framework and try to apply it based on the appearance of the wine (red|white) and you will bias your judgement based on this. This study setup is clearly adversarial but then again it pointed out a clear weakness in current state of oenology - to understand the wine better, you must eliminate biases.

ogre_codes 6y ago

> As a person who likes wine, I simply like to enjoy wine and not to describe it and try to figure out what that smell or taste resembles. I feel similarly about beer and coffee. I hear people talk about fruity flavors in coffee or other similarly weird descriptions of beer and I taste it and just taste the coffee. I can definitely taste the difference between fairly distinct varieties of coffee (or beer). But when people talk about getting cherry overtones in their coffee, I just shrug and enjoy it.

nojokes 6y ago
Usually common beer is, well, common (good as beer but no special tastes, smells). There are of course differences between scale of sweetness, bitterness and so on but rarely something extraordinary. But craft beers have introduced many flavors into the beer world where you can clearly say that some of the beers are fruity etc (because they maybe were fermented with juice instead of pure water etc). Now I again try to just enjoy the beverage but the distinction is much more pronounced. Single malt whiskies are also special case - more similar to the craft beers in their nature - a lot of experimentation and variety and some very distinct smells and tastes. With coffee there is distinct difference between Arabica and Robusta beans but in general I have not felt anything that would distinguish coffee from common beer - maybe I just have not tasted a really special coffee though.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Ok... I'll admit, beer is a terrible example. Though personally I can't tell one IPA from another unless they go really weird (like they have dark IPAs around here). And I vastly prefer stouts.
  - smsm42 6y ago
    I don't drink a lot of beer, especially lately, but I do like to have a different one once in a while, and I certainly can taste the difference between many, and also can get an idea from most descriptions, what "fruity", "nutty", etc. means. That may have come with experience... Through given a beer in a blind test, I probably couldn't write a useful taste profile and if I tried, it would probably come out very embarrassing for me, since I had no training for this, I think given the description I could have if not exact than pretty useful idea of what to expect. Interestingly enough, though I like taste of coffee in general, I have never cared for different sorts, it's all "coffee" for me, though I know people who swear there's a huge difference (and they are not generally pretentious kind so I tend to believe they genuinely think so).
nojokes 6y ago
I am currently having Belgian Leffe Brune dark beer and when I force myself to describe it then I could say that I feel coffee overtones. It might be similar to Guinness but it feels more liquid and spicy but in general it is a beer that I just really enjoy.

bordercases 6y ago

> As a person who likes wine, I simply like to enjoy wine and not to describe it and try to figure out what that smell or taste resembles. As a person who likes wine, I enjoy picking apart the taste on my palate and figuring out what it resembles to characterize it.