5 ms·

Why does gold have value?

33 points by yamrzou 6y ago

aksss 6y ago
I watch a lot of Time Team/Digging for Britain, every time I see gold come out of the earth after 1000 years looking relatively uncorrupted, I think *oh, yeah. Well that’s something that stands out about that mineral”. I generally place zero value in gold jewelry and such, but I did notice something the first time I held a solid gold coin - sounds silly but uh, gold lust is a thing, your inner-Gollum awakens just a little. The metaphor of putting people under a spell is apt. Still not interested in the bling, but it’s a fascinating material.
spurdoman77 6y ago
Why do jelly dildos have value?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
flave 6y ago
There are a few of unique-ish features of Gold that what caused it to become a trading lingua-franca. It seems that that long history plays a really important role in today's value of Gold. It explains a big part of the 'semantic value' - although I appreciate there are other contemporary reasons for its value. These features are `unique ish` in the sense that they're not unique alone to gold, but their combination with the items mentioned in the thread grant them particular functionality as an intermediary asset for trading. * Fungible. There are early methods for detecting and measuring purity (Late Egyptians I believe) which means that one unit of gold is obviously interchangeable with another unit. Not the case for jewels, livestock, crafts. * Divisible. Two pieces of one unit can be combined to make two units. Two units can be split to make one unit. Again, better than jewels, livestock, slaves, crafts. * Portable/durable. Small, light, dry, durable. Much better than oil, water, stone (these were used on some pacific islands). * Distinct. With a small handful of exceptions which weren't readily available in pre-industrial revolution, there's nothing that looks and behaves like gold. Jewels, metals, crafts all gonna fail this. * Persistent. A lot of other metal candidates are going to fail this test. Does anyone have any knowledge about whether Gold use spread like other ideas or if there was convergent discovery all over the world?
- yamrzou 6y ago
  > It seems that that long history plays a really important role in today's value of Gold. It explains a big part of the 'semantic value'. Indeed. Would the 'semantic value' alone without the other features be enough for gold to be that valuable? History starts at some point. If so, does that mean Bitcoin could be as valuable in the long run (provided that the Internet infranstruture doesn't collapse and governments don't ban it) ?
  - bustin 6y ago
    I think divisibility will get in the way eventually. What happens when over a period of 200 years enough keys are lost to where there are only 10 million Satoshis left in active circulation? Surely by then people will move over to a new chain, be it a fork of bitcoin or a different one entirely with new features, and history will have to begin anew. There are billions of ounces of gold out there, and ounces can be subdivided as small as technology will allow without any one else having to agree to a protocol change.
    - BenjiWiebe 6y ago
      Then the unit that clients display and transfer will be nS (nano satoshis). Afaik, it's a very minor update to allow more decimal places.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - capableweb 6y ago
        > Afaik, it's a very minor update to allow X Said every software developer ever, shortly before realizing that an entire ecosystem has been built upon X and any change would have to ripple through what is now our global financial system.
      - bustin 6y ago
        I commented to respond to this and deleted it, since I realized I was making some wrong assumptions. If you saw it, please disregard it. I'm still not convinced the change doesn't require a hardfork, which would involve switching chains, right? I feel like the possibility of hard forks being necessary hurts bitcoin as a "gold replacement"
haunter 6y ago
Why does Bitcoin have value?
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
  Does it?
  - idiocrat 6y ago
    What would be the difference between an Intrinsic Value and a Price Tag of BC and AU?
    - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
      I don't know how to define "intrinsic" here. There's a difference, if you think that pump and dump schemes are not "intrinsic".
naveen99 6y ago
Why do paper stock certificates have value ?
thedudeabides5 6y ago
Gold has had value for as long as boys have been trying to impress gals with shiny things. So, pretty much since we invented fire. Name another asset that’s protected purchasing power that long...
paulie_a 6y ago
It's shiny
dilutedh2o 6y ago
Its soft and conducts at 70% of copper so it's great for contacts for electronic equipment barely oxidizes supply increases at a slow and sheady rate of about 2% a year used for other electronics like circuit boards (not sure why to be honest, so might just be parroting this last point) I'm curious too tbh, but I think that list is already pretty good (along with the fungibility and inner golumn arguments earlier in the thread) ape do like shiny
fuzzfactor 6y ago
For centuries in a row, in different places all around the world, most everything lasting that has been built most of the time has been done for compensation by gold or the promise of gold. Plenty of destructive things have also been paid for with gold, in those cases sometimes the only thing left to show for it after the dust settles is the gold itself. For enough millennia where it can not be determined how far back toward the dawn of man it extends, and it will never be known if there was ever even another form of currency that was as universal.
gverrilla 6y ago
Thinking about the history of the perceived value of gold, I should add because it's shiny and rare, it would be part of the ornament of the religious ritual in Ancient times, where of course the religious ritual encompassed the “political process”. Take Egypt, for instance: the Pharaoh was the god himself, not an in-between dealer of some kind or the son of god or his cousin or something. Also he controlled most of the gold. And then you are a slave, or the pharaoh’s small child daughter, or something, and you don’t even know what’s gold, and you have never seen it except in GOD’s wearings, earrings, buildings, court members, etc. Gold was the visual representation and color of the Everything himself! Pretty convincing, right? It’s very clear, thus, gold was employed as a “religious tech” these days, and that wouldn’t be possible were it not shiny and also rare. Maybe there’s an element I’m ignoring here related to the development and possession of the gold extraction technology. For some further speculation, because I don’t have the information, just like lower status egypts would admire gold-god himself (maybe these words being so similar is not some coincidence), there must have been some analogue effect from other civilizations/cultures also. Maybe other people that controlled gold elsewhere would be inspired by EGYPT GOD and copy his practices within their own theatricals, or maybe the egypts copied some other culture first, or maybe none. Sorry for my bad english. Slavery sucks. Let's make it end. Have a nice day

33 points by yamrzou 6y ago

I watch a lot of Time Team/Digging for Britain, every time I see gold come out of the earth after 1000 years looking relatively uncorrupted, I think *oh, yeah. Well that’s something that stands out about that mineral”. I generally place zero value in gold jewelry and such, but I did notice something the first time I held a solid gold coin - sounds silly but uh, gold lust is a thing, your inner-Gollum awakens just a little. The metaphor of putting people under a spell is apt. Still not interested in the bling, but it’s a fascinating material.

spurdoman77 6y ago

Why do jelly dildos have value?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

flave 6y ago

There are a few of unique-ish features of Gold that what caused it to become a trading lingua-franca. It seems that that long history plays a really important role in today's value of Gold. It explains a big part of the 'semantic value' - although I appreciate there are other contemporary reasons for its value. These features are `unique ish` in the sense that they're not unique alone to gold, but their combination with the items mentioned in the thread grant them particular functionality as an intermediary asset for trading. * Fungible. There are early methods for detecting and measuring purity (Late Egyptians I believe) which means that one unit of gold is obviously interchangeable with another unit. Not the case for jewels, livestock, crafts. * Divisible. Two pieces of one unit can be combined to make two units. Two units can be split to make one unit. Again, better than jewels, livestock, slaves, crafts. * Portable/durable. Small, light, dry, durable. Much better than oil, water, stone (these were used on some pacific islands). * Distinct. With a small handful of exceptions which weren't readily available in pre-industrial revolution, there's nothing that looks and behaves like gold. Jewels, metals, crafts all gonna fail this. * Persistent. A lot of other metal candidates are going to fail this test. Does anyone have any knowledge about whether Gold use spread like other ideas or if there was convergent discovery all over the world?

yamrzou 6y ago
> It seems that that long history plays a really important role in today's value of Gold. It explains a big part of the 'semantic value'. Indeed. Would the 'semantic value' alone without the other features be enough for gold to be that valuable? History starts at some point. If so, does that mean Bitcoin could be as valuable in the long run (provided that the Internet infranstruture doesn't collapse and governments don't ban it) ?
- bustin 6y ago
  I think divisibility will get in the way eventually. What happens when over a period of 200 years enough keys are lost to where there are only 10 million Satoshis left in active circulation? Surely by then people will move over to a new chain, be it a fork of bitcoin or a different one entirely with new features, and history will have to begin anew. There are billions of ounces of gold out there, and ounces can be subdivided as small as technology will allow without any one else having to agree to a protocol change.
  - BenjiWiebe 6y ago
    Then the unit that clients display and transfer will be nS (nano satoshis). Afaik, it's a very minor update to allow more decimal places.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - capableweb 6y ago
      > Afaik, it's a very minor update to allow X Said every software developer ever, shortly before realizing that an entire ecosystem has been built upon X and any change would have to ripple through what is now our global financial system.
    - bustin 6y ago
      I commented to respond to this and deleted it, since I realized I was making some wrong assumptions. If you saw it, please disregard it. I'm still not convinced the change doesn't require a hardfork, which would involve switching chains, right? I feel like the possibility of hard forks being necessary hurts bitcoin as a "gold replacement"

haunter 6y ago

Why does Bitcoin have value?

SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
Does it?
- idiocrat 6y ago
  What would be the difference between an Intrinsic Value and a Price Tag of BC and AU?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
    I don't know how to define "intrinsic" here. There's a difference, if you think that pump and dump schemes are not "intrinsic".

naveen99 6y ago

Why do paper stock certificates have value ?

thedudeabides5 6y ago

Gold has had value for as long as boys have been trying to impress gals with shiny things. So, pretty much since we invented fire. Name another asset that’s protected purchasing power that long...

paulie_a 6y ago

It's shiny

dilutedh2o 6y ago

Its soft and conducts at 70% of copper so it's great for contacts for electronic equipment barely oxidizes supply increases at a slow and sheady rate of about 2% a year used for other electronics like circuit boards (not sure why to be honest, so might just be parroting this last point) I'm curious too tbh, but I think that list is already pretty good (along with the fungibility and inner golumn arguments earlier in the thread) ape do like shiny

fuzzfactor 6y ago

For centuries in a row, in different places all around the world, most everything lasting that has been built most of the time has been done for compensation by gold or the promise of gold. Plenty of destructive things have also been paid for with gold, in those cases sometimes the only thing left to show for it after the dust settles is the gold itself. For enough millennia where it can not be determined how far back toward the dawn of man it extends, and it will never be known if there was ever even another form of currency that was as universal.

gverrilla 6y ago

Thinking about the history of the perceived value of gold, I should add because it's shiny and rare, it would be part of the ornament of the religious ritual in Ancient times, where of course the religious ritual encompassed the “political process”. Take Egypt, for instance: the Pharaoh was the god himself, not an in-between dealer of some kind or the son of god or his cousin or something. Also he controlled most of the gold. And then you are a slave, or the pharaoh’s small child daughter, or something, and you don’t even know what’s gold, and you have never seen it except in GOD’s wearings, earrings, buildings, court members, etc. Gold was the visual representation and color of the Everything himself! Pretty convincing, right? It’s very clear, thus, gold was employed as a “religious tech” these days, and that wouldn’t be possible were it not shiny and also rare. Maybe there’s an element I’m ignoring here related to the development and possession of the gold extraction technology. For some further speculation, because I don’t have the information, just like lower status egypts would admire gold-god himself (maybe these words being so similar is not some coincidence), there must have been some analogue effect from other civilizations/cultures also. Maybe other people that controlled gold elsewhere would be inspired by EGYPT GOD and copy his practices within their own theatricals, or maybe the egypts copied some other culture first, or maybe none. Sorry for my bad english. Slavery sucks. Let's make it end. Have a nice day