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So... if that plays out, perhaps split the doses in half, cover twice the people, so we can all go back to our normal pre-COVID life (or what's left of it). Of

So... if that plays out, perhaps split the doses in half, cover twice the people, so we can all go back to our normal pre-COVID life (or what's left of it). Of course this won't double the number of people vaccinated since Moderna doesn't cover 100%. But every little helps.

downrightmike 6y ago
We're not going back to pre covid lives period. Even if everyone was vaxxed there would still be more moderate cases that our hospitals can handle. And then that allows the virus millions of chances to mutate and then, just like we're seeing with the UK and South Africa strains. Which as we're seeing all but nullifies the vaccine. The vaccines we're seeing are only 10% effective against the SA strain. Statistically >5% is great, but that's not a risk the vast majority of people want to run with.
- grey-area 6y ago
  The vaccines we're seeing are only 10% effective against the SA strain. This is not accurate. The AZ vaccine was only 10% effective in a study in SA. That's the only one that was shown to be vastly less effective. The Pfizer vaccine is believed to be effective against the SA variant (though I think it used In Vitro studies) and there are lots of other vaccines on the way. We will get this under control but it will be a long slow process over several years.
  - downrightmike 6y ago
    So far it is the only one.
    - ingenium 6y ago
      I believe Moderna was also shown to be effective.
    - vmception 6y ago
      Astrazeneca is not an mRNA vaccine so there’s that
- Denvercoder9 6y ago
  > We're not going back to pre covid lives period. We are. Most people, myself included, won't accept living like this forever. If vaccination fails and no treatment will be found, we'll expand healthcare capacity and accept that people will die.
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    Didn’t we move this way with the flu?
    - downrightmike 6y ago
      People couldn't behave back then for real reasons, most people that are the problem today are just spoiled brats. Back then they didn't have the century of epidemiology knowledge that was outright ignored and trivialized.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - downrightmike 6y ago
    We're already taxing our medical system. Personnel will wear down.
    - Denvercoder9 6y ago
      Hence I said to expand healthcare capacity. If there's not enough personnel, we should educate and hire more personnel. I'm not saying this is something we should do tomorrow -- only in the hypothetical case that we haven't found an effective prevention and/or cure in 5 years or so.
      - maxerickson 6y ago
        Pausing the entire global economy for 5 weeks would be vastly less costly than training personnel while we deal with it for 5 years. I do get that it would never happen, because people would refuse to do it (their belief that it wouldn't work would, in a sublime irony, prevent it from working).
- Zanni 6y ago
  The efficacy number is about preventing cases of Covid-19, but in fact, even the "low" efficacy vaccines are extremely good at preventing severe illness and death. Once we get everyone vaccinated, we should be good. https://www.vox.com/22273502/covid-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-johnson-astrazeneca-efficacy-deaths https://www.vox.com/22273502/covid-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-j...
- sschueller 6y ago
  If we vaccinate enough people to get the fatally rate well below the flu there is absolutely no reason not to go back to the old way. There is no 100% safe but there is a level at which hospitals are not overwhelmed and people are accepting the risk of being alive.
- IAmGraydon 6y ago
  Wow. You’ve really been hitting the doomer echo chambers hard, huh? Literally nothing in your post is accurate.
- otabdeveloper4 6y ago
  There's no point in sending people with Covid to the hospital. We can't cure viral infections anyways, all it does is just facilitate spread. Eventually we'll just figure out prophylactic measures for those groups most at risk and leave it at that. It's what we do already with the "common cold", even though the cold can be very dangerous and deadly to some people.
  - tempestn 6y ago
    You don't send everyone with covid (or a cold) to the hospital, but if they're having trouble breathing you certainly do, and of course there are things that can be done there to help. Even at the beginning of the pandemic before the disease was well understood mortality was several times higher without access to hospital. Now as more has been learned the standard of care has improved further. Just because they can't wave a wand and cure the virus doesn't mean they can't do anything.

downrightmike 6y ago

We're not going back to pre covid lives period. Even if everyone was vaxxed there would still be more moderate cases that our hospitals can handle. And then that allows the virus millions of chances to mutate and then, just like we're seeing with the UK and South Africa strains. Which as we're seeing all but nullifies the vaccine. The vaccines we're seeing are only 10% effective against the SA strain. Statistically >5% is great, but that's not a risk the vast majority of people want to run with.

grey-area 6y ago
The vaccines we're seeing are only 10% effective against the SA strain. This is not accurate. The AZ vaccine was only 10% effective in a study in SA. That's the only one that was shown to be vastly less effective. The Pfizer vaccine is believed to be effective against the SA variant (though I think it used In Vitro studies) and there are lots of other vaccines on the way. We will get this under control but it will be a long slow process over several years.
- downrightmike 6y ago
  So far it is the only one.
  - ingenium 6y ago
    I believe Moderna was also shown to be effective.
  - vmception 6y ago
    Astrazeneca is not an mRNA vaccine so there’s that
Denvercoder9 6y ago
> We're not going back to pre covid lives period. We are. Most people, myself included, won't accept living like this forever. If vaccination fails and no treatment will be found, we'll expand healthcare capacity and accept that people will die.
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  Didn’t we move this way with the flu?
  - downrightmike 6y ago
    People couldn't behave back then for real reasons, most people that are the problem today are just spoiled brats. Back then they didn't have the century of epidemiology knowledge that was outright ignored and trivialized.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- downrightmike 6y ago
  We're already taxing our medical system. Personnel will wear down.
  - Denvercoder9 6y ago
    Hence I said to expand healthcare capacity. If there's not enough personnel, we should educate and hire more personnel. I'm not saying this is something we should do tomorrow -- only in the hypothetical case that we haven't found an effective prevention and/or cure in 5 years or so.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      Pausing the entire global economy for 5 weeks would be vastly less costly than training personnel while we deal with it for 5 years. I do get that it would never happen, because people would refuse to do it (their belief that it wouldn't work would, in a sublime irony, prevent it from working).
Zanni 6y ago
The efficacy number is about preventing cases of Covid-19, but in fact, even the "low" efficacy vaccines are extremely good at preventing severe illness and death. Once we get everyone vaccinated, we should be good. https://www.vox.com/22273502/covid-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-johnson-astrazeneca-efficacy-deaths https://www.vox.com/22273502/covid-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-j...
sschueller 6y ago
If we vaccinate enough people to get the fatally rate well below the flu there is absolutely no reason not to go back to the old way. There is no 100% safe but there is a level at which hospitals are not overwhelmed and people are accepting the risk of being alive.
IAmGraydon 6y ago
Wow. You’ve really been hitting the doomer echo chambers hard, huh? Literally nothing in your post is accurate.
otabdeveloper4 6y ago
There's no point in sending people with Covid to the hospital. We can't cure viral infections anyways, all it does is just facilitate spread. Eventually we'll just figure out prophylactic measures for those groups most at risk and leave it at that. It's what we do already with the "common cold", even though the cold can be very dangerous and deadly to some people.
- tempestn 6y ago
  You don't send everyone with covid (or a cold) to the hospital, but if they're having trouble breathing you certainly do, and of course there are things that can be done there to help. Even at the beginning of the pandemic before the disease was well understood mortality was several times higher without access to hospital. Now as more has been learned the standard of care has improved further. Just because they can't wave a wand and cure the virus doesn't mean they can't do anything.