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> Getting $250k in SV sucks Ok hold up in what world does $250k in SV suck? Median household income here is around $120k last I checked. Making more than doubl

by Swizec 6y ago

> Getting $250k in SV sucks Ok hold up in what world does $250k in SV suck? Median household income here is around $120k last I checked. Making more than double that cannot be described as sucking, come on.

jorblumesea 6y ago
It was mostly sarcastic. I don't actually believe it's bad, that's just "average market rate" for senior/mid level engineer. Roughly translated, 250k in SV is 120k in the Midwest. Housing issues aside.
- pc86 6y ago
  > Roughly translated, 250k in SV is 120k in the Midwest. I'll believe this only insofar as $120k in the Midwest means you are "set" in the sense that you can max out your retirement, buy a home, have nice cars, etc. and basically live on autopilot from a financial sense.
kortilla 6y ago
That’s how bad housing is. If you grew up on the dream of a nice house with a garage and a big yard, $250k still doesn’t get you there in SV. This type of housing setup that would cost $300k in, say Dallas, will cost $2.5 million on the peninsula. Between property taxes, mortgage insurance, interest, and principal payments and a jaw dropping $140k down payment, that is a monthly payment of $14k or so. Your take-home after taxes on 250k in the bay is probably around 160k, or 13.3k a month. Whoops, no “American dream” home for you.
- refurb 6y ago
  How is it reasonable in the least to expect a big house with a garage and a yard in one of the most expensive places in the country? Of course it’s going to cost a crazy amount of money. It’s not even an option in Manhattan, but plenty of people would disagree it “sucks” there.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    > It’s not even an option in Manhattan, but plenty of people would disagree it “sucks” there. In Manhattan thats the expectation. You’re in a super dense area filled with high rises. Life is good for apartment dwelling. In Mountain View, you’re in a suburb that’s mostly single family homes that you’re constantly reminded you won’t ever be able to afford. > How is it reasonable in the least to expect a big house with a garage and a yard That’s the lifestyle of the peninsula. It’s reasonable to expect the lifestyle you are constantly surrounded by. Back to the Manhattan analogy, $250k absolutely would not be considered good money if it could not afford you the ability to live like the average property owner. The Bay Area is a stark contrast between the people lucky enough to have purchased 10+ years ago + some FAANGs and everyone else. Everyone else is stuck in a terrible apartment telling themselves stories about how they’ll get out after making their money or whatever. It’s nice living in a walkable apartment with no car in Manhattan (or nyc in general). It’s dreary AF on the peninsula.
    - refurb 6y ago
      It’s reasonable to expect the lifestyle you are constantly surrounded by. No, it's not. Should you be able to afford a home in Beverley Hills? Should you be able to afford a home in San Francisco itself? 40 years ago that was the norm.
      - kortilla 6y ago
        > No, it's not. Yes, it is. The norm in cities in the US until very recently was that you could get a middle class job, buy a small home, raise a family, etc. This phenomenon of only being able to lick the boots of the homeowners near the good jobs is relative new. > able to afford a home in Beverley Hills We’re talking about the entire Bay Area, not a specific suburb. Anywhere within an hour commute of Google HQ is like this. > Should you be able to afford a home in San Francisco itself? 40 years ago that was the norm. Yes. It was the norm. Then the nimby dickheads stepped in and pulled up the ladder behind them by blocking everything they could and pushed through a very favorable proposition to existing homeowners (prop 13). Your opinion might be that it’s fine to block out an entire generation from the bay and rent seek. I personally think that’s a shitty drag on society propped up by government created housing scarcity.
- Swizec 6y ago
  As a European I think American expectations of a reasonable home size are completely ridiculous. Guess that’s a hidden immigrant advantage :D Then again I would describe most of the houses here as somewhere between a hovel and a shack in terms of build quality. But I’m getting used to it after 6 years.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    > As a European I think American expectations of a reasonable home size are completely ridiculous. I would agree if it weren’t for the fact that this is still a completely reasonable expectation in most of the rest of the country.

by Swizec 6y ago

jorblumesea 6y ago

It was mostly sarcastic. I don't actually believe it's bad, that's just "average market rate" for senior/mid level engineer. Roughly translated, 250k in SV is 120k in the Midwest. Housing issues aside.

pc86 6y ago
> Roughly translated, 250k in SV is 120k in the Midwest. I'll believe this only insofar as $120k in the Midwest means you are "set" in the sense that you can max out your retirement, buy a home, have nice cars, etc. and basically live on autopilot from a financial sense.

kortilla 6y ago

That’s how bad housing is. If you grew up on the dream of a nice house with a garage and a big yard, $250k still doesn’t get you there in SV. This type of housing setup that would cost $300k in, say Dallas, will cost $2.5 million on the peninsula. Between property taxes, mortgage insurance, interest, and principal payments and a jaw dropping $140k down payment, that is a monthly payment of $14k or so. Your take-home after taxes on 250k in the bay is probably around 160k, or 13.3k a month. Whoops, no “American dream” home for you.

refurb 6y ago
How is it reasonable in the least to expect a big house with a garage and a yard in one of the most expensive places in the country? Of course it’s going to cost a crazy amount of money. It’s not even an option in Manhattan, but plenty of people would disagree it “sucks” there.
- kortilla 6y ago
  > It’s not even an option in Manhattan, but plenty of people would disagree it “sucks” there. In Manhattan thats the expectation. You’re in a super dense area filled with high rises. Life is good for apartment dwelling. In Mountain View, you’re in a suburb that’s mostly single family homes that you’re constantly reminded you won’t ever be able to afford. > How is it reasonable in the least to expect a big house with a garage and a yard That’s the lifestyle of the peninsula. It’s reasonable to expect the lifestyle you are constantly surrounded by. Back to the Manhattan analogy, $250k absolutely would not be considered good money if it could not afford you the ability to live like the average property owner. The Bay Area is a stark contrast between the people lucky enough to have purchased 10+ years ago + some FAANGs and everyone else. Everyone else is stuck in a terrible apartment telling themselves stories about how they’ll get out after making their money or whatever. It’s nice living in a walkable apartment with no car in Manhattan (or nyc in general). It’s dreary AF on the peninsula.
  - refurb 6y ago
    It’s reasonable to expect the lifestyle you are constantly surrounded by. No, it's not. Should you be able to afford a home in Beverley Hills? Should you be able to afford a home in San Francisco itself? 40 years ago that was the norm.
    - kortilla 6y ago
      > No, it's not. Yes, it is. The norm in cities in the US until very recently was that you could get a middle class job, buy a small home, raise a family, etc. This phenomenon of only being able to lick the boots of the homeowners near the good jobs is relative new. > able to afford a home in Beverley Hills We’re talking about the entire Bay Area, not a specific suburb. Anywhere within an hour commute of Google HQ is like this. > Should you be able to afford a home in San Francisco itself? 40 years ago that was the norm. Yes. It was the norm. Then the nimby dickheads stepped in and pulled up the ladder behind them by blocking everything they could and pushed through a very favorable proposition to existing homeowners (prop 13). Your opinion might be that it’s fine to block out an entire generation from the bay and rent seek. I personally think that’s a shitty drag on society propped up by government created housing scarcity.
Swizec 6y ago
As a European I think American expectations of a reasonable home size are completely ridiculous. Guess that’s a hidden immigrant advantage :D Then again I would describe most of the houses here as somewhere between a hovel and a shack in terms of build quality. But I’m getting used to it after 6 years.
- kortilla 6y ago
  > As a European I think American expectations of a reasonable home size are completely ridiculous. I would agree if it weren’t for the fact that this is still a completely reasonable expectation in most of the rest of the country.