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So someone accuses someone of something nearly ten years later after the alleged incident and we are supposed to take it as hard evidence? Sorry but that’s not

So someone accuses someone of something nearly ten years later after the alleged incident and we are supposed to take it as hard evidence? Sorry but that’s not enough and I am not willing to simply believe extraordinary claims without it being judged in court.

elicash 6y ago
You're referring to a disputed allegation of inappropriately touching a woman. Other acts were not disputed: > I said and did things that made some women feel awkward, unwelcome, insecure, and/or discouraged. In social settings, under the guise of joking, being collegial, flirting, or having a good time, I undoubtedly caused some women to question themselves, retreat, feel alone, and worry they can’t be their authentic selves. By stupidly perpetuating a culture rife with busting chops, teasing, and peer pressure to go out drinking, I made some women feel self-conscious, anxious, and fear they might not be taken seriously. https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca1 https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca... It's fair to say he sexually harassed women, even if you think he should be forgiven after apologizing for it. Also, an "extraordinary" claim would be "the Earth is flat." The harassment of women in the workplace is known and even quite common!
- optimiz3 6y ago
  Consider the iterated consequences if you don't allow people to admit a transgression, reform, and move on. Such a society ultimately turns into a gaslighting double-down deny-everything debacle, where everything must be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court of law. In this situation court cases will be dragged out forever, and asymmetric resources and power really will come into play. Failing and fixing fast is much more preferable.
- thryway21421 6y ago
  > It's fair to say he sexually harassed women, even if you think he should be forgiven after apologizing for it. Sexual harassment is a broad label that doesn't discriminate between coercing sex and an inappropriate joke. However given that he also brought Twitter into the world, the lack of nuance here seems ironic.
  - benzible 6y ago
    You say Sacca "brought Twitter into the world," at best a gross exaggeration of his role, and then complain of a lack of nuance?
    - thryway21421 6y ago
      Angels & VC's make companies in the same way producers make movies. Victory has a hundred fathers
no_wizard 6y ago
That’s not how it works, at all. This is dismissive of a number of facts: - power dynamics in the workplace and culture (often those who raise these issues are punished not taken seriously and protected adequately)[0] - when someone is reporting this kind of behavior their professional aspirations can and often are[1] hampered or damaged regardless of the outcome of any investigation. Backlash is common and frankly unacceptable - Chris Sacca himself admitted to sexist behavior[2] Given all this, I don’t think this is outlandish at all. In fact the odds of getting the correct eyes on a report of harassment is often so hard the only thing left often is whistleblower or public opinion to motivate something being done about and that is a sad untenable state of affairs [0]: https://diginomica.com/how-can-companies-tackle-tech-sectors-sexual-harassment-problem https://diginomica.com/how-can-companies-tackle-tech-sectors... [1]: https://hbr.org/2020/05/why-sexual-harassment-programs-backfire https://hbr.org/2020/05/why-sexual-harassment-programs-backf... [2]: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/03/chris-sacca-and-dave-mcclure-confess-to-sexist-behavior.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/03/chris-sacca-and-dave-mcclure...

elicash 6y ago

You're referring to a disputed allegation of inappropriately touching a woman. Other acts were not disputed: > I said and did things that made some women feel awkward, unwelcome, insecure, and/or discouraged. In social settings, under the guise of joking, being collegial, flirting, or having a good time, I undoubtedly caused some women to question themselves, retreat, feel alone, and worry they can’t be their authentic selves. By stupidly perpetuating a culture rife with busting chops, teasing, and peer pressure to go out drinking, I made some women feel self-conscious, anxious, and fear they might not be taken seriously. https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca1 https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca... It's fair to say he sexually harassed women, even if you think he should be forgiven after apologizing for it. Also, an "extraordinary" claim would be "the Earth is flat." The harassment of women in the workplace is known and even quite common!

optimiz3 6y ago
Consider the iterated consequences if you don't allow people to admit a transgression, reform, and move on. Such a society ultimately turns into a gaslighting double-down deny-everything debacle, where everything must be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in a court of law. In this situation court cases will be dragged out forever, and asymmetric resources and power really will come into play. Failing and fixing fast is much more preferable.
thryway21421 6y ago
> It's fair to say he sexually harassed women, even if you think he should be forgiven after apologizing for it. Sexual harassment is a broad label that doesn't discriminate between coercing sex and an inappropriate joke. However given that he also brought Twitter into the world, the lack of nuance here seems ironic.
- benzible 6y ago
  You say Sacca "brought Twitter into the world," at best a gross exaggeration of his role, and then complain of a lack of nuance?
  - thryway21421 6y ago
    Angels & VC's make companies in the same way producers make movies. Victory has a hundred fathers

no_wizard 6y ago

That’s not how it works, at all. This is dismissive of a number of facts: - power dynamics in the workplace and culture (often those who raise these issues are punished not taken seriously and protected adequately)[0] - when someone is reporting this kind of behavior their professional aspirations can and often are[1] hampered or damaged regardless of the outcome of any investigation. Backlash is common and frankly unacceptable - Chris Sacca himself admitted to sexist behavior[2] Given all this, I don’t think this is outlandish at all. In fact the odds of getting the correct eyes on a report of harassment is often so hard the only thing left often is whistleblower or public opinion to motivate something being done about and that is a sad untenable state of affairs [0]: https://diginomica.com/how-can-companies-tackle-tech-sectors-sexual-harassment-problem https://diginomica.com/how-can-companies-tackle-tech-sectors... [1]: https://hbr.org/2020/05/why-sexual-harassment-programs-backfire https://hbr.org/2020/05/why-sexual-harassment-programs-backf... [2]: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/03/chris-sacca-and-dave-mcclure-confess-to-sexist-behavior.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/03/chris-sacca-and-dave-mcclure...