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I'm absolutely aware of the shortcomings of the currently most popular blockchain technologies. But calling specific implementations (like Bitcoin or Ethereum)

by jcfrei 6y ago

I'm absolutely aware of the shortcomings of the currently most popular blockchain technologies. But calling specific implementations (like Bitcoin or Ethereum) a failure when people are paying thousands of dollars each block to use it is pretty bold.

wizzwizz4 6y ago
I don't think something's success or failure hinges on whether rich people like it.
- thedudeabides5 6y ago
  Well, except for tradable financial assets...which are by their definition beauty contests for rich people’s saving/investment dollars.
  - Retric 6y ago
    Success or failure of financial asset is independent of their current price, otherwise Bernie Madoff was providing a valuable financial product in 2007. It’s individual trades that depend on the price because they have finite endpoints. However, assets are owner independent and therefore based on their long term value proposition.
ashtonkem 6y ago
> But calling specific implementations (like Bitcoin or Ethereum) a failure when people are paying thousands of dollars each block to use it is pretty bold. And people were willing to pay hundreds of dollars for plush toys with the appropriate tags preserved in plastic. Bubbles are a thing, and the crowd can be wrong. To pretend otherwise is silly. More fundamentally, the original promise of Bitcoin was that it would act like a currency. It has failed at this. You can tell because all of the advocates have shifted over from “money of the future” to “it’s a store of value”; a subtle admission that it’s not actually functioning like a currency.
- meowkit 6y ago
  And there are cryptos like Nano that fulfill this original promise. Technology evolves over time. Just because its not perfect at the first go, doesn’t mean it should go in the trash.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    > Just because it’s not perfect at the first go, doesn’t mean it should go in the trash The converse is also true; just because it’s an improvement over past failures doesn’t mean that it’ll actually work. My issue with crypto has always been fundamental; I don’t think crypto fans really have a good grasp on what motivates the average person, because most crypto fans[0] are ideologues, and like many ideologues they struggle to recognize that not everyone shares their values. Decentralized and trust-less speaks to engineers, but your average person has no idea what that means and doesn’t really care either. Plus a lot of the consequences of crypto currency design are absolute anti-features from a consumer perspective; nobody wants to find out that losing their password means that they’re broke, or that they can’t reverse a fraudulent charge. Your average consumer wants those features, and is willing to give up decentralization, something they didn’t value, to get it. 0 - At least those fans of crypto that want to see it used as currency. As compared to those crypto fans that want to do whatever it takes to make the number go up.
    - jakupovic 6y ago
      Is Elon Musk bitcoin fan? How about Mass Mutual? BNYM? Pretty funny the language used, fans, seriously 6th most valued currency in the world is relegated to plush babies status. At least people have stopped with the tulips and that talk. Same talk and yet bitcoin acceptance keeps growing day by day, how do you explain that? Is everyone else wrong?
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        > Is Elon Musk a[sic] Bitcoin fan? Yes. He also is a Twitter shitposter who got in trouble with the SEC for promising to take Tesla private at $420 a share, a number he picked because it was funny, and was also involved in the GME nonsense a few weeks back. If you’re pointing to men like him as serious figures pushing for bitcoin’s adoption, then it’s time to stop and rethink a lot of things. > yet Bitcoin acceptance keeps growing say by day, how do you explain that? Bitcoin speculation grows day by day. People want to get rich (in USD I’ll point out) with it. Actual usage of Bitcoin as a currency is not growing. As always, gimme a call when I can buy a latte and groceries with it. I’ve seen literally one place with a “we take Bitcoin” sticker, and the receptionist had absolutely no idea why it was there or what it meant. > Is everyone else wrong? Why couldn’t they be?

by jcfrei 6y ago

wizzwizz4 6y ago

I don't think something's success or failure hinges on whether rich people like it.

thedudeabides5 6y ago
Well, except for tradable financial assets...which are by their definition beauty contests for rich people’s saving/investment dollars.
- Retric 6y ago
  Success or failure of financial asset is independent of their current price, otherwise Bernie Madoff was providing a valuable financial product in 2007. It’s individual trades that depend on the price because they have finite endpoints. However, assets are owner independent and therefore based on their long term value proposition.

ashtonkem 6y ago

> But calling specific implementations (like Bitcoin or Ethereum) a failure when people are paying thousands of dollars each block to use it is pretty bold. And people were willing to pay hundreds of dollars for plush toys with the appropriate tags preserved in plastic. Bubbles are a thing, and the crowd can be wrong. To pretend otherwise is silly. More fundamentally, the original promise of Bitcoin was that it would act like a currency. It has failed at this. You can tell because all of the advocates have shifted over from “money of the future” to “it’s a store of value”; a subtle admission that it’s not actually functioning like a currency.

meowkit 6y ago
And there are cryptos like Nano that fulfill this original promise. Technology evolves over time. Just because its not perfect at the first go, doesn’t mean it should go in the trash.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  > Just because it’s not perfect at the first go, doesn’t mean it should go in the trash The converse is also true; just because it’s an improvement over past failures doesn’t mean that it’ll actually work. My issue with crypto has always been fundamental; I don’t think crypto fans really have a good grasp on what motivates the average person, because most crypto fans[0] are ideologues, and like many ideologues they struggle to recognize that not everyone shares their values. Decentralized and trust-less speaks to engineers, but your average person has no idea what that means and doesn’t really care either. Plus a lot of the consequences of crypto currency design are absolute anti-features from a consumer perspective; nobody wants to find out that losing their password means that they’re broke, or that they can’t reverse a fraudulent charge. Your average consumer wants those features, and is willing to give up decentralization, something they didn’t value, to get it. 0 - At least those fans of crypto that want to see it used as currency. As compared to those crypto fans that want to do whatever it takes to make the number go up.
  - jakupovic 6y ago
    Is Elon Musk bitcoin fan? How about Mass Mutual? BNYM? Pretty funny the language used, fans, seriously 6th most valued currency in the world is relegated to plush babies status. At least people have stopped with the tulips and that talk. Same talk and yet bitcoin acceptance keeps growing day by day, how do you explain that? Is everyone else wrong?
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      > Is Elon Musk a[sic] Bitcoin fan? Yes. He also is a Twitter shitposter who got in trouble with the SEC for promising to take Tesla private at $420 a share, a number he picked because it was funny, and was also involved in the GME nonsense a few weeks back. If you’re pointing to men like him as serious figures pushing for bitcoin’s adoption, then it’s time to stop and rethink a lot of things. > yet Bitcoin acceptance keeps growing say by day, how do you explain that? Bitcoin speculation grows day by day. People want to get rich (in USD I’ll point out) with it. Actual usage of Bitcoin as a currency is not growing. As always, gimme a call when I can buy a latte and groceries with it. I’ve seen literally one place with a “we take Bitcoin” sticker, and the receptionist had absolutely no idea why it was there or what it meant. > Is everyone else wrong? Why couldn’t they be?