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Negotiation only works if both parties are equal. You are not equal to Facebook, they have a hiring pipelines miles long to replace you, and have no need to neg

Negotiation only works if both parties are equal. You are not equal to Facebook, they have a hiring pipelines miles long to replace you, and have no need to negotiate anything with you. The cost to replace you is just the cost of doing business. I hate how this always comes up as if the hiring model is in any way balanced between an employer and employee. I was once asked by a New York based company, at one of their remote offices, what I wanted for a salary. I said “$180k, what you’re paying for this position in NY”. They said “No. We know what you were making before, so we’ll offer you $5k over that.” It was never a negotiation.

droopyEyelids 6y ago
If I understand your point, you're only considering marginal engineers that aren't expected to make a significant contribution to a product, and don't have competing offers. In the other case, the company needs to accomplish something, believes you can do it, and you have a list of companies sending you offers. Thats not so far fetched! Many of us hit that point in our careers.
- falcolas 6y ago
  > you're only considering marginal engineers that aren't expected to make a significant contribution to a product So, 99% of the workforce? Or, 99.9999% if you consider that companies just don’t give a fuck unless you happen to be Guido van Rossem? HR departments, who approve/deny pay changes, don’t care. My current company is being forced (with the approval of the board) to compensate high performers in alternative ways (like stock grants, or vacation time) if they’re outside of the “approved pay bands”. I know someone who 100% qualifies for a title of “high performer” (they promoted him to a director a month after this) who would have had his pay cut in half if he moved away from his current location due to “remaining competitive with the local market”.
francis-io 6y ago
As a general rule, never disclose current or old salary. Just because you get asked, doesn't mean you need to tell anyone. I usually politely sidestep the "what's your current salary?" with a "in rolling to accept at least x, but we can negotiate if both parties are satisfied and get to offers". If a recruiter insists, I tell them I have a personal rule to never disclose that. I think I have lost a single prospect, which likely was never real to begin with. Likely just fishing. While I'm at it, I never mention who my current employer is either. I usually obscure it on my cv of I'm still employed. I also had a request recently to provide a scan of my passport on initial application, which i also declined. Honestly, recruiters think they can ask for any and all personal information they want. If you have value, no one will drop you because of it.
- falcolas 6y ago
  > As a general rule, never disclose current or old salary Don’t worry, Equifax takes care of that for us. Both who you’re currently working for, and your current salary. It’s a service it offers to HR departments across the US.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Bonuses and RSUs presumably give you wiggle room to handwave your total comp though.
  - erosenbe0 6y ago
    Equifax does not have accurate information. Do you know something I don't? One time they thought I worked on staff at the local zoo. Seriously. It would be a waste of effort for HR. They don't have time for that I don't think. They want to get to a number not do forensics on your background.
- skeeter2020 6y ago
  You can use this to your advantage by setting the anchor. I'd never give a dollar figure but I would give an acceptable range. At my current position there's a variable comp component based on personal and company performance; this is a legitimate opportunity to give a forward-looking optimistic range: "Looking towards the next year, if I meet performance metrics similar to what I've demonstrated in the past I will be somewhere in the range of x and y". >> I never mention who my current employer is either Why is this? It's typically the most relevant information to a new position, and usually trivial to determine without you volunteering it.
- naveen99 6y ago
  Refusing to answer a fact seeking question in a negotiation isn’t great strategy. it may not even help your case. if you make too little, that’s already your problem. Someone offering you more than what you make is a net positive. Withholding information leading to a whitheld offer does you no good.
  - 6y ago
chias 6y ago
> Negotiation only works if both parties are equal. That is not true at all. It only works if both parties have something of value that the other wants. It's always a negotiation, but the only thing that ever matters in a negotiation is the BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) on both sides. If your BATNA is unemployment and their BATNA is a minor delay getting someone almost exactly equivalent to you, then you'll take their offer and they'll politely decline if you ask for more. If your BATNA is one of a few other competing offers all of which excite you, and their BATNA is having to settle for someone who doesn't bring your particular expertise to the company, or worse, having to start their search over again, you're in a much stronger position to ask for more money.
- missedthecue 6y ago
  Your batna is only unemployment if Facebook is the only company on the face of planet that will hire you
  - chias 6y ago
    Philosophically yes, but "unemployment" and "unemployed for another month that I really can't afford while I go through this whole process yet again with another company who's just going to do the same damn thing" can feel pretty equivalent.

droopyEyelids 6y ago

If I understand your point, you're only considering marginal engineers that aren't expected to make a significant contribution to a product, and don't have competing offers. In the other case, the company needs to accomplish something, believes you can do it, and you have a list of companies sending you offers. Thats not so far fetched! Many of us hit that point in our careers.

falcolas 6y ago
> you're only considering marginal engineers that aren't expected to make a significant contribution to a product So, 99% of the workforce? Or, 99.9999% if you consider that companies just don’t give a fuck unless you happen to be Guido van Rossem? HR departments, who approve/deny pay changes, don’t care. My current company is being forced (with the approval of the board) to compensate high performers in alternative ways (like stock grants, or vacation time) if they’re outside of the “approved pay bands”. I know someone who 100% qualifies for a title of “high performer” (they promoted him to a director a month after this) who would have had his pay cut in half if he moved away from his current location due to “remaining competitive with the local market”.

francis-io 6y ago

As a general rule, never disclose current or old salary. Just because you get asked, doesn't mean you need to tell anyone. I usually politely sidestep the "what's your current salary?" with a "in rolling to accept at least x, but we can negotiate if both parties are satisfied and get to offers". If a recruiter insists, I tell them I have a personal rule to never disclose that. I think I have lost a single prospect, which likely was never real to begin with. Likely just fishing. While I'm at it, I never mention who my current employer is either. I usually obscure it on my cv of I'm still employed. I also had a request recently to provide a scan of my passport on initial application, which i also declined. Honestly, recruiters think they can ask for any and all personal information they want. If you have value, no one will drop you because of it.

falcolas 6y ago
> As a general rule, never disclose current or old salary Don’t worry, Equifax takes care of that for us. Both who you’re currently working for, and your current salary. It’s a service it offers to HR departments across the US.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Bonuses and RSUs presumably give you wiggle room to handwave your total comp though.
- erosenbe0 6y ago
  Equifax does not have accurate information. Do you know something I don't? One time they thought I worked on staff at the local zoo. Seriously. It would be a waste of effort for HR. They don't have time for that I don't think. They want to get to a number not do forensics on your background.
skeeter2020 6y ago
You can use this to your advantage by setting the anchor. I'd never give a dollar figure but I would give an acceptable range. At my current position there's a variable comp component based on personal and company performance; this is a legitimate opportunity to give a forward-looking optimistic range: "Looking towards the next year, if I meet performance metrics similar to what I've demonstrated in the past I will be somewhere in the range of x and y". >> I never mention who my current employer is either Why is this? It's typically the most relevant information to a new position, and usually trivial to determine without you volunteering it.
naveen99 6y ago
Refusing to answer a fact seeking question in a negotiation isn’t great strategy. it may not even help your case. if you make too little, that’s already your problem. Someone offering you more than what you make is a net positive. Withholding information leading to a whitheld offer does you no good.
- 6y ago

chias 6y ago

> Negotiation only works if both parties are equal. That is not true at all. It only works if both parties have something of value that the other wants. It's always a negotiation, but the only thing that ever matters in a negotiation is the BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) on both sides. If your BATNA is unemployment and their BATNA is a minor delay getting someone almost exactly equivalent to you, then you'll take their offer and they'll politely decline if you ask for more. If your BATNA is one of a few other competing offers all of which excite you, and their BATNA is having to settle for someone who doesn't bring your particular expertise to the company, or worse, having to start their search over again, you're in a much stronger position to ask for more money.

missedthecue 6y ago
Your batna is only unemployment if Facebook is the only company on the face of planet that will hire you
- chias 6y ago
  Philosophically yes, but "unemployment" and "unemployed for another month that I really can't afford while I go through this whole process yet again with another company who's just going to do the same damn thing" can feel pretty equivalent.