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> In a sneaky study, Brochet dyed a white wine red and gave it to 54 oenology (wine science) students. The supposedly expert panel overwhelmingly described the

> In a sneaky study, Brochet dyed a white wine red and gave it to 54 oenology (wine science) students. The supposedly expert panel overwhelmingly described the beverage like they would a red wine. They were completely fooled. I don't understand. Why would anyone think of a student as an expert? I'm not saying that oenologists aren't full of it. I'm saying that this study doesn't prove what this article claims it does. Why doesn't the author report on a study with established experts instead?

mkl95 6y ago
I think that raises questions about the quality of the wine more than about anything else. I'm more of a beer guy but I can easily tell white from red wine. Both taste and aftertaste are very different.
- nimih 6y ago
  Scientists: We took a bunch of people who claim they can tell red wine from white wine based on taste, and successfully fooled most of them with food coloring. Internet commenter reading the study: I can definitely tell red wine from white wine based on taste.
  - mkl95 6y ago
    Any Spanish person who claims they cannot tell red from white wine is probably a teetotaller. However you can buy extremely good wine for a few € here, which leads me to think these people may have been served some watered down stuff for budget reasons.
    - gameswithgo 6y ago
      Until you do a blind taste test on yourself, you don't know that you can tell.
      - pyramidal 6y ago
        Gwern is that you? (Just kidding. I know he doesn't have a monopoly over blind/randomized self-tests.)
        gwern 6y ago
        To be fair, I did do a blind taste-test indicating I can tell the difference between mineral water brands: https://www.gwern.net/Tea#water-experiment https://www.gwern.net/Tea#water-experiment (Spoiler: they all taste bad or indifferent, and Evian tasted the worst.)
    - dagw 6y ago
      The span of 'red' and 'white' wines is pretty massive. I don't find it too hard to believe that if you took a robust, heavily oaked and acidic white (perhaps with some skin maceration) and served it at room temperature with red food coloring that it could pass as a light bodied, low tannin, red from some grape you weren't familiar with. Obviously if you had a Barolo and a Chablis and asked people to pick out the white wine then people would easily manage.
- GuB-42 6y ago
  You probably can't. You probably can make a difference between a red wine you are familiar with with a white wine you are also familiar with. Both served the usual way. Besides the color, red and white wines are typically served at a different temperature (that alone change things completely) and with different dishes. So of course, make all parameters different and they are going to taste different. I can usually make the difference pretty easily but I drank some white wines that I definitely would have thought were red if blind. But that's typically wine made to be paired with the main course and served at a higher temperature than usual. And sure, some wines are unmistakable. If a wine is loaded in tanins, it is most likely deep red and the taste is obvious. The opposite is not that easy.
- rsync 6y ago
  With respect, and without any particular knowledge of your experiences, I would suggest that your impression of "red" and "white" wine is shaped by very typical examples of both. There is an incredibly broad array of flavor, mouth feel, aromas, etc., in both red and white wine and while you and I might very reliably discern a Napa Chardonnay from an Argentine Malbec there are many white and red wines that are well off the spectrum of what we think of as "red" and "white" wines. I have done a lot of wine tasting all over the world and I am certain you could fool me with regard to red vs. white - if you chose interesting and unconventional examples ...
  - jcelerier 6y ago
    > is shaped by very typical examples of both. which is what everyone means by "red" and "white" wine. when you process your data points you're supposed to remove the outliers.

mkl95 6y ago

I think that raises questions about the quality of the wine more than about anything else. I'm more of a beer guy but I can easily tell white from red wine. Both taste and aftertaste are very different.

nimih 6y ago
Scientists: We took a bunch of people who claim they can tell red wine from white wine based on taste, and successfully fooled most of them with food coloring. Internet commenter reading the study: I can definitely tell red wine from white wine based on taste.
- mkl95 6y ago
  Any Spanish person who claims they cannot tell red from white wine is probably a teetotaller. However you can buy extremely good wine for a few € here, which leads me to think these people may have been served some watered down stuff for budget reasons.
  - gameswithgo 6y ago
    Until you do a blind taste test on yourself, you don't know that you can tell.
    - pyramidal 6y ago
      Gwern is that you? (Just kidding. I know he doesn't have a monopoly over blind/randomized self-tests.)
      - gwern 6y ago
        To be fair, I did do a blind taste-test indicating I can tell the difference between mineral water brands: https://www.gwern.net/Tea#water-experiment https://www.gwern.net/Tea#water-experiment (Spoiler: they all taste bad or indifferent, and Evian tasted the worst.)
  - dagw 6y ago
    The span of 'red' and 'white' wines is pretty massive. I don't find it too hard to believe that if you took a robust, heavily oaked and acidic white (perhaps with some skin maceration) and served it at room temperature with red food coloring that it could pass as a light bodied, low tannin, red from some grape you weren't familiar with. Obviously if you had a Barolo and a Chablis and asked people to pick out the white wine then people would easily manage.
GuB-42 6y ago
You probably can't. You probably can make a difference between a red wine you are familiar with with a white wine you are also familiar with. Both served the usual way. Besides the color, red and white wines are typically served at a different temperature (that alone change things completely) and with different dishes. So of course, make all parameters different and they are going to taste different. I can usually make the difference pretty easily but I drank some white wines that I definitely would have thought were red if blind. But that's typically wine made to be paired with the main course and served at a higher temperature than usual. And sure, some wines are unmistakable. If a wine is loaded in tanins, it is most likely deep red and the taste is obvious. The opposite is not that easy.
rsync 6y ago
With respect, and without any particular knowledge of your experiences, I would suggest that your impression of "red" and "white" wine is shaped by very typical examples of both. There is an incredibly broad array of flavor, mouth feel, aromas, etc., in both red and white wine and while you and I might very reliably discern a Napa Chardonnay from an Argentine Malbec there are many white and red wines that are well off the spectrum of what we think of as "red" and "white" wines. I have done a lot of wine tasting all over the world and I am certain you could fool me with regard to red vs. white - if you chose interesting and unconventional examples ...
- jcelerier 6y ago
  > is shaped by very typical examples of both. which is what everyone means by "red" and "white" wine. when you process your data points you're supposed to remove the outliers.