4 ms·

And please, read patio11's famous and log post about salary negotiation.

vidarh 6y ago
It'd be a start if people just started trying to do any negotiation. Over 25 years in tech, I've hired many dozen developers. Only maybe 3-4 of the candidates I've given offers to in that time have tried negotiating. I've never given an offer where there wouldn't be at least some room for us to negotiate. Meanwhile I always negotiate when I receive offers, and have usually ended up with substantial increases over the initial offer.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  I know it seems like that but most people simply “negotiate” by getting multiple offers and taking the one that suits them best, or leaving one company and joining another. In that way it’s a bit like a blind auction. Whatever room to negotiate you’ve left at the top of your offer represents risk that you’ve underestimated the other partys’ offers.
  - vidarh 6y ago
    If we kept having a lot of people turn down offers, that'd likely be the case, but even if we assumed all rejected offers was down to pay, it'd mean most people are not "negotiating" that way either.
- biztos 6y ago
  I was one of those developers who didn't know you're supposed to negotiate. I ended up being friends with a guy who got hired at the same time into the same team, for a slightly lower position, and got paid about 10% more for it. Because he had asked. That was 15 years ago, people didn't talk about this stuff as much back then, and hopefully I'm wiser now. Next time I have a salary negotiation, if ever, I'm definitely going to scour HN for advice and read some books.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
    One of the most important things I learned in life, and I'm really glad I learned it early, is that if you want something, ask for it. The worst that can happen is that the other person says no.
    - psim1 6y ago
      Or “no and we don’t like your attitude; offer retracted.” I think it’s rare, but it happened to me once and I was sore about it and am a bit less confident in my negotiating now (but I still do).
      - HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
        Unless you desperately need that job to stave off imminent homelessness, that's generally a good thing. An employer who outright refuses negotiation, or any request with a "no, thx, bye" is not someone you want to work for.
      - spamizbad 6y ago
        I would say any company that would retract an offer when you attempt to negotiate isn’t worth working for. Probably an awful culture. The only way I could see you losing out an offer at a good company is if the negotiation drags out long enough (weeks) that someone else comes along and agrees to take the role at X pay while you’re still negotiating. I’ve hired many engineers. Neither myself, nor any cofounder has been insulted or angry by a counter-offer. Sometimes we said to ourselves “this is kinda high for someone at their experience level” and held firm or met in the middle, but most of the time if you ask you’ll squeeze at least 5K more out of it even if your counter was 30K higher than the offer.
      - nkrisc 6y ago
        That might be a problem if you've only got enough money for this month's rent, but otherwise any company that would pull that would abuse you in other ways had you been hired.
        6y ago
antihero 6y ago
Could you be so kind as to link this?
- david_allison 6y ago
  https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

It'd be a start if people just started trying to do any negotiation. Over 25 years in tech, I've hired many dozen developers. Only maybe 3-4 of the candidates I've given offers to in that time have tried negotiating. I've never given an offer where there wouldn't be at least some room for us to negotiate. Meanwhile I always negotiate when I receive offers, and have usually ended up with substantial increases over the initial offer.

jeffbee 6y ago
I know it seems like that but most people simply “negotiate” by getting multiple offers and taking the one that suits them best, or leaving one company and joining another. In that way it’s a bit like a blind auction. Whatever room to negotiate you’ve left at the top of your offer represents risk that you’ve underestimated the other partys’ offers.
- vidarh 6y ago
  If we kept having a lot of people turn down offers, that'd likely be the case, but even if we assumed all rejected offers was down to pay, it'd mean most people are not "negotiating" that way either.
biztos 6y ago
I was one of those developers who didn't know you're supposed to negotiate. I ended up being friends with a guy who got hired at the same time into the same team, for a slightly lower position, and got paid about 10% more for it. Because he had asked. That was 15 years ago, people didn't talk about this stuff as much back then, and hopefully I'm wiser now. Next time I have a salary negotiation, if ever, I'm definitely going to scour HN for advice and read some books.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
  One of the most important things I learned in life, and I'm really glad I learned it early, is that if you want something, ask for it. The worst that can happen is that the other person says no.
  - psim1 6y ago
    Or “no and we don’t like your attitude; offer retracted.” I think it’s rare, but it happened to me once and I was sore about it and am a bit less confident in my negotiating now (but I still do).
    - HeyLaughingBoy 6y ago
      Unless you desperately need that job to stave off imminent homelessness, that's generally a good thing. An employer who outright refuses negotiation, or any request with a "no, thx, bye" is not someone you want to work for.
    - spamizbad 6y ago
      I would say any company that would retract an offer when you attempt to negotiate isn’t worth working for. Probably an awful culture. The only way I could see you losing out an offer at a good company is if the negotiation drags out long enough (weeks) that someone else comes along and agrees to take the role at X pay while you’re still negotiating. I’ve hired many engineers. Neither myself, nor any cofounder has been insulted or angry by a counter-offer. Sometimes we said to ourselves “this is kinda high for someone at their experience level” and held firm or met in the middle, but most of the time if you ask you’ll squeeze at least 5K more out of it even if your counter was 30K higher than the offer.
    - nkrisc 6y ago
      That might be a problem if you've only got enough money for this month's rent, but otherwise any company that would pull that would abuse you in other ways had you been hired.
      - 6y ago

antihero 6y ago

Could you be so kind as to link this?

david_allison 6y ago
https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/