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> Stalin did at least ten holocausts What do you mean by this? > People can freely call themselves communists or socialists, and few seem to have a problem.

> Stalin did at least ten holocausts What do you mean by this? > People can freely call themselves communists or socialists, and few seem to have a problem. (1) huge amounts of people do in fact rage uncontrollably at any idea that might be labeled "socialist", and (2) socialism encompasses such a wide variety of views, from anarchist and libertarian ideas, yes to Stalinist tankies. I'd wager the latter are a fringe minority.

wilsocr88 6y ago
What I mean by that is that Stalin-descended (or maybe it should say "Marx-descended") ideology is, by the raw death toll numbers, FAR worse than the Nazis (who were also unbelievably bad, just to be completely clear). I use the phrase "ten holocausts" because it's catchy, memorable, and it sticks in the mind (this is UNBELIEVABLY important. I need people to remember). It's (very roughly) true. Hitler killed ~11ish million, Communist governments have killed ~100ish million and are still going strong in multiple countries. Yet, nobody cares about the resentment-based ideology that leads to it being drilled into the minds of young people in so many western universities.
- andrepd 6y ago
  > What I mean by that is that Stalin-descended (or maybe it should say "Marx-descended") In the sense that those things are about as unrelated as they can be, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, and you're instead simply parroting Red Scare tropes uncritically. > Hitler killed ~11ish million, Communist governments have killed ~100ish million I really don't wish to get into dick-measuring contests like these because the exact number doesn't really matter, anything whose death toll is counted in millions is so horrifying that it is almost insulting to be arguing about exact counts. But Hitler killed many more than 11 million people, and only the most ludicrous counts get to 100 million dead "by communism", including things such as Soviet soldiers dead fighting Nazis. And of course, the opposite of "communism", if it exists, isn't "Hitler", it's "capitalism". It would be amusing to try to measure the death toll of capitalism, including colonialism, slavery, exploitation, repression, wars, etc.
  - wilsocr88 6y ago
    The point is that Communists should be exactly as bad in the collective unconscious as Nazis, and it is literally dangerous that this is not the case. Communism is considered by many people to be something that sorta had some okay ideas but wasn't really implemented correctly. The thing is: it has always been implemented exactly correctly. The genocide is not a deviation from the Communistic system, it is the fulfillment of it because it is an ideology of resentment and destruction. Any system that tells deeply hateful and impoverished city folks that they are not just allowed bit morally obligated to commit atrocities against people they resent and their property, well, that's a pretty damn easy sell. You're muddying the waters on this issue. Communism (and I'll gladly designate that as a general umbrella term for any and all petty distinctions you want to make) is a deadly, genocidal ideology of resentment, vengeance, and destruction, just like German National Socialism was. Communism is a set of systems that require large-scale slavery in order to function. Do you or do you not think Communism is destructive? Would you or would you not condemn Communists at the same level as Nazis? And, to anticipate, if you want to claim "that wasn't real communism," remind me to never make you the dictator.

wilsocr88 6y ago

What I mean by that is that Stalin-descended (or maybe it should say "Marx-descended") ideology is, by the raw death toll numbers, FAR worse than the Nazis (who were also unbelievably bad, just to be completely clear). I use the phrase "ten holocausts" because it's catchy, memorable, and it sticks in the mind (this is UNBELIEVABLY important. I need people to remember). It's (very roughly) true. Hitler killed ~11ish million, Communist governments have killed ~100ish million and are still going strong in multiple countries. Yet, nobody cares about the resentment-based ideology that leads to it being drilled into the minds of young people in so many western universities.

andrepd 6y ago
> What I mean by that is that Stalin-descended (or maybe it should say "Marx-descended") In the sense that those things are about as unrelated as they can be, I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, and you're instead simply parroting Red Scare tropes uncritically. > Hitler killed ~11ish million, Communist governments have killed ~100ish million I really don't wish to get into dick-measuring contests like these because the exact number doesn't really matter, anything whose death toll is counted in millions is so horrifying that it is almost insulting to be arguing about exact counts. But Hitler killed many more than 11 million people, and only the most ludicrous counts get to 100 million dead "by communism", including things such as Soviet soldiers dead fighting Nazis. And of course, the opposite of "communism", if it exists, isn't "Hitler", it's "capitalism". It would be amusing to try to measure the death toll of capitalism, including colonialism, slavery, exploitation, repression, wars, etc.
- wilsocr88 6y ago
  The point is that Communists should be exactly as bad in the collective unconscious as Nazis, and it is literally dangerous that this is not the case. Communism is considered by many people to be something that sorta had some okay ideas but wasn't really implemented correctly. The thing is: it has always been implemented exactly correctly. The genocide is not a deviation from the Communistic system, it is the fulfillment of it because it is an ideology of resentment and destruction. Any system that tells deeply hateful and impoverished city folks that they are not just allowed bit morally obligated to commit atrocities against people they resent and their property, well, that's a pretty damn easy sell. You're muddying the waters on this issue. Communism (and I'll gladly designate that as a general umbrella term for any and all petty distinctions you want to make) is a deadly, genocidal ideology of resentment, vengeance, and destruction, just like German National Socialism was. Communism is a set of systems that require large-scale slavery in order to function. Do you or do you not think Communism is destructive? Would you or would you not condemn Communists at the same level as Nazis? And, to anticipate, if you want to claim "that wasn't real communism," remind me to never make you the dictator.