4 ms·

For me school absolutely sucked. I liked being able to meet my peers but it was like having an unpaid job where the only benefit is your office colleagues. I l

For me school absolutely sucked. I liked being able to meet my peers but it was like having an unpaid job where the only benefit is your office colleagues. I like posting this Chomsky video whenever school discussions come up. It largely reflects my own feelings and experiences in school. I think for many people who say they enjoyed school, the idea that some people might look at the school system the way Chomsky does, might come as a surprise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVqMAlgAnlo I believe the school systems completely fails a segment of the student population, wasting their gifts and abilities because they have created a system where docility and subservience are a prerequisite to success. If my future kids inherit my dispositions, I won't hesitate to pull them out of the standard school system and find some alternative schooling methods. The standard school system chews up and spits out countless brilliant children simply because they won't unquestioningly do what some untrusted adult tells them to.

BrianOnHN 6y ago
> they won't unquestioningly do what some untrusted adult tells them to How is this any different than the job market they're being groomed for?
- fenderbluesjr 6y ago
  They are doing it for money. A student is told to do countless things they have absolutely no interest in, 'for their future'.
  - BrianOnHN 6y ago
    > They are doing it for money Then we should pay kids to be good students? Sounds good to me.
    - fenderbluesjr 6y ago
      That's not the conclusion I would draw
    - JCharante 6y ago
      If we assume that people who did well in school end up being a positive return for the government, then this sounds good. Even if people abuse it by making their kids study hard or have multiple kids, it would end up being a positive return for the country and the pressure wouldn't be much different than what is seen in some east asian countries.
- jstanley 6y ago
  It isn't different from the market they're being groomed for, but the brilliant ones don't have to work in that kind of job market in the first place. There's no point grooming them for it.
  - BrianOnHN 6y ago
    If the education system was designed for the brilliant ones, our society would fall apart in a generation. HN thinks the world revolves around them, see: > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26131258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26131258
    - jstanley 6y ago
      It doesn't have to be designed for them, it just has to stop trying to crush their spirit.
      - BrianOnHN 6y ago
        > crush their spirit As a kid I was reprimanded and shamed for my entrepreneurial endeavors, so I get this point. Nowadays, I think it's already different. 20 years ago we didn't have Shark Tank and the rest of the entrepreneur-as-a-rockstar environment that makes the general population recognize the value of a young entrepreneurial spirit.
    - tomp 6y ago
      The fallacy is, thinking the system has to be the same for everyone. I think a lot of my talents were wasted by being "stuck" in the "slow lane" with the rest of the kids (in subjects I excelled at, e.g. math). Thank god those of us who were the best at national competition got some extra training, outside of school.
      - BrianOnHN 6y ago
        > thinking the system has to be the same for everyone True. The problem is meritocracy quickly falls apart when humans are responsible for implementing it, for example see the recent celebrity college admission bribery scandal. The Netflix series "3%" is based on this. Given we don't radically change the % of GDP spent on education, a single system focussing on the lowest common denominator makes sense. I mean, we could coddle your genius, but if the trade-off is lack of workers, or a society that succumbs to populist autocracy...
npsimons 6y ago
Second Chomsky so hard. He's so right, in all the painful ways that people don't want to hear because it questions their cherished bedrock beliefs.
stripline 6y ago
If you haven't read Against School by John Taylor Gatto I highly suggest it. I think you'll agree with what he says. https://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm https://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm

BrianOnHN 6y ago

> they won't unquestioningly do what some untrusted adult tells them to How is this any different than the job market they're being groomed for?

fenderbluesjr 6y ago
They are doing it for money. A student is told to do countless things they have absolutely no interest in, 'for their future'.
- BrianOnHN 6y ago
  > They are doing it for money Then we should pay kids to be good students? Sounds good to me.
  - fenderbluesjr 6y ago
    That's not the conclusion I would draw
  - JCharante 6y ago
    If we assume that people who did well in school end up being a positive return for the government, then this sounds good. Even if people abuse it by making their kids study hard or have multiple kids, it would end up being a positive return for the country and the pressure wouldn't be much different than what is seen in some east asian countries.
jstanley 6y ago
It isn't different from the market they're being groomed for, but the brilliant ones don't have to work in that kind of job market in the first place. There's no point grooming them for it.
- BrianOnHN 6y ago
  If the education system was designed for the brilliant ones, our society would fall apart in a generation. HN thinks the world revolves around them, see: > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26131258 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26131258
  - jstanley 6y ago
    It doesn't have to be designed for them, it just has to stop trying to crush their spirit.
    - BrianOnHN 6y ago
      > crush their spirit As a kid I was reprimanded and shamed for my entrepreneurial endeavors, so I get this point. Nowadays, I think it's already different. 20 years ago we didn't have Shark Tank and the rest of the entrepreneur-as-a-rockstar environment that makes the general population recognize the value of a young entrepreneurial spirit.
  - tomp 6y ago
    The fallacy is, thinking the system has to be the same for everyone. I think a lot of my talents were wasted by being "stuck" in the "slow lane" with the rest of the kids (in subjects I excelled at, e.g. math). Thank god those of us who were the best at national competition got some extra training, outside of school.
    - BrianOnHN 6y ago
      > thinking the system has to be the same for everyone True. The problem is meritocracy quickly falls apart when humans are responsible for implementing it, for example see the recent celebrity college admission bribery scandal. The Netflix series "3%" is based on this. Given we don't radically change the % of GDP spent on education, a single system focussing on the lowest common denominator makes sense. I mean, we could coddle your genius, but if the trade-off is lack of workers, or a society that succumbs to populist autocracy...

npsimons 6y ago

Second Chomsky so hard. He's so right, in all the painful ways that people don't want to hear because it questions their cherished bedrock beliefs.

stripline 6y ago

If you haven't read Against School by John Taylor Gatto I highly suggest it. I think you'll agree with what he says. https://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm https://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm