4 ms·

It's not unfair. It's a voluntary transaction, in which both parties benefit. Both companies and workers have always behaved in a profit-maximizing way.

Closi 6y ago
Voluntary transactions that are profit maximising and benefit both parties can still be unfair. For instance, most people accept that for the same job and all things being equal you should pay a black/white person the same wage. If there was a job posting that said ‘we pay this skin colour X and this skin colour Y because according to our analysis people with darker skin tones are willing to accept a lower wage’ there would rightfully be outrage. It would be unfair, while being a voluntary transaction which is profit maximising and in which both parties benefit. I know you aren’t arguing for that though - we accept as a society that we shouldn’t pay people different based on race, but lots of people do believe that we should pay people differently based on where they were born and what visa status they hold. I personally think this view will change over time as globalisation and remote working continues.
teddyh 6y ago
Some volontary transactions are nonetheless illegal, because to allow them would negatively affect society as a whole. The usual example is that it is not legal (as it once was) to sell yourself into slavery. Also, overly onerous contracts can (in many jurisdictions) not be enforced. Simply put, “It's a voluntary transaction” can never be a sufficient argument for why something ought to be legal.
- jokethrowaway 6y ago
  It's interesting you bring up slavery. I think I should be allowed to sell myself or kill myself if I wanted to. I certainly don't want society or a government to regulate on that. Eg. I'd rather be a slave than starving on the road, I'd rather be dead than in some particular irreversible painful medical condition. The only actions which are ethically wrong in my book are hurting someone else or damaging / stealing their property. Incidentally the government breaks these rules legally everyday (eg. taxation, wars, spying on people).
  - teddyh 6y ago
    If it were legal to sell yourself into slavery (as it once was), we know what would happen: A lot of companies would try to push people into the position where people would feel they had no other choice to become slaves, and companies would position themselves to take advantage of this fact. We would then have a permanent class of slaves in the world, which would dehumanize them and gradually freeze the hearts of everybody who was made to interact with this system. We know this would happen because it did happen. And it was a long road for humanity as a whole to get rid of it (and we still haven’t completely). And you would throw it all away because of some personal libertarian principle? This isn’t only about what you would like to be able to do in any given moment, it’s what this ability does to society as a whole. Your ability to someday be able to sell yourself into slavery has some value (for the principle of the thing, if nothing else), but it is certainly not worth the above-mentioned effects on society.

Closi 6y ago

Voluntary transactions that are profit maximising and benefit both parties can still be unfair. For instance, most people accept that for the same job and all things being equal you should pay a black/white person the same wage. If there was a job posting that said ‘we pay this skin colour X and this skin colour Y because according to our analysis people with darker skin tones are willing to accept a lower wage’ there would rightfully be outrage. It would be unfair, while being a voluntary transaction which is profit maximising and in which both parties benefit. I know you aren’t arguing for that though - we accept as a society that we shouldn’t pay people different based on race, but lots of people do believe that we should pay people differently based on where they were born and what visa status they hold. I personally think this view will change over time as globalisation and remote working continues.

teddyh 6y ago

Some volontary transactions are nonetheless illegal, because to allow them would negatively affect society as a whole. The usual example is that it is not legal (as it once was) to sell yourself into slavery. Also, overly onerous contracts can (in many jurisdictions) not be enforced. Simply put, “It's a voluntary transaction” can never be a sufficient argument for why something ought to be legal.

jokethrowaway 6y ago
It's interesting you bring up slavery. I think I should be allowed to sell myself or kill myself if I wanted to. I certainly don't want society or a government to regulate on that. Eg. I'd rather be a slave than starving on the road, I'd rather be dead than in some particular irreversible painful medical condition. The only actions which are ethically wrong in my book are hurting someone else or damaging / stealing their property. Incidentally the government breaks these rules legally everyday (eg. taxation, wars, spying on people).
- teddyh 6y ago
  If it were legal to sell yourself into slavery (as it once was), we know what would happen: A lot of companies would try to push people into the position where people would feel they had no other choice to become slaves, and companies would position themselves to take advantage of this fact. We would then have a permanent class of slaves in the world, which would dehumanize them and gradually freeze the hearts of everybody who was made to interact with this system. We know this would happen because it did happen. And it was a long road for humanity as a whole to get rid of it (and we still haven’t completely). And you would throw it all away because of some personal libertarian principle? This isn’t only about what you would like to be able to do in any given moment, it’s what this ability does to society as a whole. Your ability to someday be able to sell yourself into slavery has some value (for the principle of the thing, if nothing else), but it is certainly not worth the above-mentioned effects on society.