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You're being down-voted but this is exactly what my friends who live in China have told me. People were also downvoting big time back in March when I and others

You're being down-voted but this is exactly what my friends who live in China have told me. People were also downvoting big time back in March when I and others were saying that the numbers China was quoting were made the heck up. Suddenly the western media realizes that's true[1] yet we don't see a mass back-lash against China as a result... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55481397 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55481397

starpilot 6y ago
In Trump circles, the narrative has been "FUCK CHINA FOR THIS VIRUS" since day 1. Seriously, this has their mantra the entire pandemic. Everything from being a lab virus to lying about numbers are what they've discussed. Really funny to see them on the same page with some Chinese.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  Although disagree with almost everything about trump, I think he was in some way right about China. I don’t think it has anything to do with the Chinese people though. Also, I don’t think he went about it in an effective way at all, it seems like the ccp was betting on him just going away after a while and just suffering the pain for a while.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
    What you mention deserves to be repeated. The chinese people and the CCP are not the same thing, just as the national security apparatus of the US... and US citizens are separate too. its natural to catch flak, but it happens to both sides. The saudi arabia govt is friendly to our govt, but the vast majority of their population thinks its totally OK to blow up US citizens. Iranian leadership is constantly at odds with the US military leadershp, but iranians themselves welcome tourists from the US with open arms , love US culture and movies, and want americans to visit.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - qubit000 6y ago
      The CCP consists of 90M+ party members who represent all facets of society--larger than entire population of Germany. Include family members and it's 300M+ almost size of US. Furthermore, it's an integral part of Chinese society with overwhelming support among its citizens (>90%). The CCP is continuation of past dynasties operating under the 'Mandate of Heaven' to serve the people. Failure to do so and it will be replaced. So no, this often repeated fallacy by the west that they condemn CCP not the Chinese people is not only ignorant but supremely arrogant and condescending in assuming 1.4B are somehow mindless robots at the mercy of the few. Demonizing the CCP, is in effect, directly insulting the Chinese people.
      - tim333 6y ago
        I'm sure a lot of Chinese are not fans even if they are forced to join by practical considerations. Like most communist systems they are unable to have democratic elections because people would vote them out.
        qubit000 6y ago
        In a country of 1.4B not everyone is going to agree which is evident in US w/only 1/4 of population. Chinese are free to immigrate elsewhere if the choose to do so. Chinese citizens elect leaders at local level who in turn elect those above them and this continues to the highest levers where only the most competent rise to the top. Communism is a misnomer when applied to China. It is no more communist than US is a democracy. In fact in many ways China is more democratic than US whereby it's govt of 90M+ members more accurately represent interests of Chinese society.
      - Hnrobert42 6y ago
        They are not mindless robots. They are doing the best the can living in a totalitarian state operating the most sophisticated internal surveillance ever. How can you claim they the CCP has support with a straight face? First, says who? CCP-controlled media? Second, would the average Chinese person answer honestly? Third, the Chinese have never experienced real democracy. Asking them if they support the CCP is meaningless. It’s like asking a third-gen Red Sox fan if they support the Rex Sox.
  - tim333 6y ago
    Indeed the Chinese countries outside China - Taiwan and Singapore have dealt with things very well and openly.
dirtyid 6y ago
"Chinese friends/wife/coworker said" is particularly kind of ridiculous appeal to authority considering the average citizen is not typically a subject matter expert on relevant topics being discussed outside of generalized familiarity with the censorship apparatus. The only useful things the average Chinese person will tell you is Chinese numbers / stats with Chinese characteristics are not accurate, but analysts familiar with Chinese stats will at least use oblique indicators to tell you if numbers are useful, i.e. Chinese GDP smoothing. Or in this case, how covid19 export case numbers from places like Taiwan, HK, SK, Singapore, Australia, Newzealand all indicate Chinese numbers are not grossly exaggerated - China only exported a fraction of covid19 cases compared to Europe or North America because covid19 never exploded in China due to harsh restrictions. The article you're citing is also sourcing figures from _Chinese_ CDC on antibody prevalence rate which is expected to be higher than pure testing data seen in similar studies in other countries. So again, it's official Chinese numbers being useful and comporting to similar measures elsewhere. The difference is western media like BBC attempting to spin as the numbers being uniquely nefarious and useful idiots eating it up, just like in this NYT article.
- __m 6y ago
  Shhh, we need to cover the uncomfortable truth that our numbers could have been better if we took (and take) the threat serious
  - anonymouse008 6y ago
    By that same logic - Did you ever leave your house feb 2020 to now? If you did, you could’ve done more.
    - sverhagen 6y ago
      I turned into a freakin' hermit... How about you?
      - ungamed 6y ago
        Thats my secret, I was a hermit before covid (not OP).
ttz 6y ago
Down votes or up votes don't matter to me - I'm just glad (and surprised) that what I thought was basically an innocuous "IMO" comment generated so much discourse. Isn't this the point of public forums? To encourage discussion?

starpilot 6y ago

In Trump circles, the narrative has been "FUCK CHINA FOR THIS VIRUS" since day 1. Seriously, this has their mantra the entire pandemic. Everything from being a lab virus to lying about numbers are what they've discussed. Really funny to see them on the same page with some Chinese.

kmonsen 6y ago
Although disagree with almost everything about trump, I think he was in some way right about China. I don’t think it has anything to do with the Chinese people though. Also, I don’t think he went about it in an effective way at all, it seems like the ccp was betting on him just going away after a while and just suffering the pain for a while.
- IG_Semmelweiss 6y ago
  What you mention deserves to be repeated. The chinese people and the CCP are not the same thing, just as the national security apparatus of the US... and US citizens are separate too. its natural to catch flak, but it happens to both sides. The saudi arabia govt is friendly to our govt, but the vast majority of their population thinks its totally OK to blow up US citizens. Iranian leadership is constantly at odds with the US military leadershp, but iranians themselves welcome tourists from the US with open arms , love US culture and movies, and want americans to visit.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - qubit000 6y ago
    The CCP consists of 90M+ party members who represent all facets of society--larger than entire population of Germany. Include family members and it's 300M+ almost size of US. Furthermore, it's an integral part of Chinese society with overwhelming support among its citizens (>90%). The CCP is continuation of past dynasties operating under the 'Mandate of Heaven' to serve the people. Failure to do so and it will be replaced. So no, this often repeated fallacy by the west that they condemn CCP not the Chinese people is not only ignorant but supremely arrogant and condescending in assuming 1.4B are somehow mindless robots at the mercy of the few. Demonizing the CCP, is in effect, directly insulting the Chinese people.
    - tim333 6y ago
      I'm sure a lot of Chinese are not fans even if they are forced to join by practical considerations. Like most communist systems they are unable to have democratic elections because people would vote them out.
      - qubit000 6y ago
        In a country of 1.4B not everyone is going to agree which is evident in US w/only 1/4 of population. Chinese are free to immigrate elsewhere if the choose to do so. Chinese citizens elect leaders at local level who in turn elect those above them and this continues to the highest levers where only the most competent rise to the top. Communism is a misnomer when applied to China. It is no more communist than US is a democracy. In fact in many ways China is more democratic than US whereby it's govt of 90M+ members more accurately represent interests of Chinese society.
    - Hnrobert42 6y ago
      They are not mindless robots. They are doing the best the can living in a totalitarian state operating the most sophisticated internal surveillance ever. How can you claim they the CCP has support with a straight face? First, says who? CCP-controlled media? Second, would the average Chinese person answer honestly? Third, the Chinese have never experienced real democracy. Asking them if they support the CCP is meaningless. It’s like asking a third-gen Red Sox fan if they support the Rex Sox.
- tim333 6y ago
  Indeed the Chinese countries outside China - Taiwan and Singapore have dealt with things very well and openly.

dirtyid 6y ago

"Chinese friends/wife/coworker said" is particularly kind of ridiculous appeal to authority considering the average citizen is not typically a subject matter expert on relevant topics being discussed outside of generalized familiarity with the censorship apparatus. The only useful things the average Chinese person will tell you is Chinese numbers / stats with Chinese characteristics are not accurate, but analysts familiar with Chinese stats will at least use oblique indicators to tell you if numbers are useful, i.e. Chinese GDP smoothing. Or in this case, how covid19 export case numbers from places like Taiwan, HK, SK, Singapore, Australia, Newzealand all indicate Chinese numbers are not grossly exaggerated - China only exported a fraction of covid19 cases compared to Europe or North America because covid19 never exploded in China due to harsh restrictions. The article you're citing is also sourcing figures from _Chinese_ CDC on antibody prevalence rate which is expected to be higher than pure testing data seen in similar studies in other countries. So again, it's official Chinese numbers being useful and comporting to similar measures elsewhere. The difference is western media like BBC attempting to spin as the numbers being uniquely nefarious and useful idiots eating it up, just like in this NYT article.

__m 6y ago
Shhh, we need to cover the uncomfortable truth that our numbers could have been better if we took (and take) the threat serious
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  By that same logic - Did you ever leave your house feb 2020 to now? If you did, you could’ve done more.
  - sverhagen 6y ago
    I turned into a freakin' hermit... How about you?
    - ungamed 6y ago
      Thats my secret, I was a hermit before covid (not OP).

ttz 6y ago

Down votes or up votes don't matter to me - I'm just glad (and surprised) that what I thought was basically an innocuous "IMO" comment generated so much discourse. Isn't this the point of public forums? To encourage discussion?