4 ms·

University isn't worthless, merely wasted on the young. The most obvious example (to old people) is teaching history to 18 year olds who haven't experienced any

by pgroves 15y ago

University isn't worthless, merely wasted on the young. The most obvious example (to old people) is teaching history to 18 year olds who haven't experienced anything. I didn't really understand how the Vietnam War was possible until I saw the Iraq War happen. Wouldn't all of these be better career tracks: - Soldier in the army, then military academy, then military command. - Work at an alderman's office, then get a degree in political science, then run for office. - PHP developer for a marketing firm, then CS degree, then technical cofounder at a startup. The only programs I know that capitalize on this is are some MBA programs that are geared toward middle-management types trying to get into upper management.

Apocryphon 15y ago
The U.S. could really use more apprenticeship programs for the young.
HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
Some MS Software Engineering programs take a similar path and require that the applicant have development experience before being allowed to enter the program. I think it's a great idea.
wnewman 15y ago
I think a certain amount of "horses for courses" caution is called for here. Some skills seem much more suited to learning by doing than others. Even within a particular field of endeavor, some skills seem more suited to learning by doing than others. Didn't various militaries converge on the practice of sending people to school to become artillerists and celestial navigators even as they continued to honor learning by doing in other specialties? If you want to rise in politics or design user interfaces, it may work pretty well to learn by doing, while studying only as the need arises: as far as I know, there isn't that much formal knowledge that's foundational for that kind of work. There's still lots of valuable stuff to read and learn from, but it doesn't seem foundational: trying to read a UI book without studying the prerequisites doesn't seem to be nearly as confusing as e.g. trying to read a physics or engineering book without studying the prerequisites. And math-y stuff beyond the usual public education level seems foundational in a fair number of specialties, not just physics and engineering. If you want to price portfolios of derivative securities or write software that recognizes faces, a couple of years spent on math and/or on related fundamentals of software (algorithms and data structures, various other programming skills) may be a good way to start. I'm not suggesting those man-years are necessarily best spent at school. I notice that most of the valuable formal foundational knowledge tends to be open to self-study if you're motivated enough, and I have run into people who'd learned a lot of them for themselves before they got out of high school. (E.g., my freshman roommate at college.:-) But I am suggesting that in school or not, some of those man-years are best spent before you need to rely on the knowledge: learn a lot of what you need to know about spherical trigonometry and log tables or gunpowder mixes and metal fatigue before you need it, not as you need it.
- pgroves 15y ago
  I love this word "foundational" you've introduced. My point is that entry level employees are typically just doing what they're told to by someone considered an expert. This low level work in any field provides context for what is important to learn and why. I think it would be better to obtain this context first, and then take a step back from the day-to-day rat race to fill in the "foundational" knowledge needed to become a true expert. College would then be like a mid-career sabbatical. When the sabbatical is over, you're ready to be in charge of the big decisions. eg, Be a carpenter for 15 years then go to architecture school.

by pgroves 15y ago

Apocryphon 15y ago

The U.S. could really use more apprenticeship programs for the young.

HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago

Some MS Software Engineering programs take a similar path and require that the applicant have development experience before being allowed to enter the program. I think it's a great idea.

wnewman 15y ago

I think a certain amount of "horses for courses" caution is called for here. Some skills seem much more suited to learning by doing than others. Even within a particular field of endeavor, some skills seem more suited to learning by doing than others. Didn't various militaries converge on the practice of sending people to school to become artillerists and celestial navigators even as they continued to honor learning by doing in other specialties? If you want to rise in politics or design user interfaces, it may work pretty well to learn by doing, while studying only as the need arises: as far as I know, there isn't that much formal knowledge that's foundational for that kind of work. There's still lots of valuable stuff to read and learn from, but it doesn't seem foundational: trying to read a UI book without studying the prerequisites doesn't seem to be nearly as confusing as e.g. trying to read a physics or engineering book without studying the prerequisites. And math-y stuff beyond the usual public education level seems foundational in a fair number of specialties, not just physics and engineering. If you want to price portfolios of derivative securities or write software that recognizes faces, a couple of years spent on math and/or on related fundamentals of software (algorithms and data structures, various other programming skills) may be a good way to start. I'm not suggesting those man-years are necessarily best spent at school. I notice that most of the valuable formal foundational knowledge tends to be open to self-study if you're motivated enough, and I have run into people who'd learned a lot of them for themselves before they got out of high school. (E.g., my freshman roommate at college.:-) But I am suggesting that in school or not, some of those man-years are best spent before you need to rely on the knowledge: learn a lot of what you need to know about spherical trigonometry and log tables or gunpowder mixes and metal fatigue before you need it, not as you need it.

pgroves 15y ago
I love this word "foundational" you've introduced. My point is that entry level employees are typically just doing what they're told to by someone considered an expert. This low level work in any field provides context for what is important to learn and why. I think it would be better to obtain this context first, and then take a step back from the day-to-day rat race to fill in the "foundational" knowledge needed to become a true expert. College would then be like a mid-career sabbatical. When the sabbatical is over, you're ready to be in charge of the big decisions. eg, Be a carpenter for 15 years then go to architecture school.