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In Chicago especially (where the study was based and where I live), police fairly clearly have an overuse of force in general. They have paid enormous sums over

In Chicago especially (where the study was based and where I live), police fairly clearly have an overuse of force in general. They have paid enormous sums over many years in lawsuits for wrongful use of force. There is plenty of research to show that when confronted with complex problems police will respond with force when other tactics may have been better for all (such as cited in this book - https://www.npr.org/2019/01/02/681606995/punishment-without-crime-argues-that-americas-misdemeanor-system-targets-the-poo https://www.npr.org/2019/01/02/681606995/punishment-without-... )

jariel 6y ago
That is directional evidence, not the kind of evidence needed for a study like this. Assuming we accounted for every one of those court cases, would that nudge the data? Are there 100x cases that 'never made it to court' for every case that did, or only 2? How wide is that Gaussian distribution of assertive policing? Is it limited to a specific unit? Or a specific tactic, i.e. no-knock warrants? What was the nature of 'over policing' in those cases, vs. the kind of issues that police face daily? Because typically, it's going to be the 'egregious' issues that go to court, probably not 'the little things' and of course the 'little things' might be the real problem, or not. Are some police letting people off the hook for serious things aka "I saw you with that gun in your belt, son, I'm not going to ruin your life in this moment because you remind me of me when I was your age, but you need to get that thing home and put it away, if I see you on this block again I'm going to check up on you". Which FYI might actually in some ways be a rational policing tactic - or not - it's hard to know. Or is it almost entirely a function of profiling and the likelihood for police to act given certain bits of information, whereupon the actual type of applied policing might be the same? Maybe it's the reaction of the offenders - perhaps young men of colour are really that much more likely to not flinch when someone 'who looks like them' approaches? Paradoxically 'more policing' in the broadest sense seems to lead to less crime, at least by some measures [1], but that doesn't take into account level of assertion. There are too many variables to just assume that police are, in most cases under or over policing with respect to application of the law. [1] https://around.uoregon.edu/content/study-finds-largely-black-cities-are-over-or-under-policed https://around.uoregon.edu/content/study-finds-largely-black...

jariel 6y ago

That is directional evidence, not the kind of evidence needed for a study like this. Assuming we accounted for every one of those court cases, would that nudge the data? Are there 100x cases that 'never made it to court' for every case that did, or only 2? How wide is that Gaussian distribution of assertive policing? Is it limited to a specific unit? Or a specific tactic, i.e. no-knock warrants? What was the nature of 'over policing' in those cases, vs. the kind of issues that police face daily? Because typically, it's going to be the 'egregious' issues that go to court, probably not 'the little things' and of course the 'little things' might be the real problem, or not. Are some police letting people off the hook for serious things aka "I saw you with that gun in your belt, son, I'm not going to ruin your life in this moment because you remind me of me when I was your age, but you need to get that thing home and put it away, if I see you on this block again I'm going to check up on you". Which FYI might actually in some ways be a rational policing tactic - or not - it's hard to know. Or is it almost entirely a function of profiling and the likelihood for police to act given certain bits of information, whereupon the actual type of applied policing might be the same? Maybe it's the reaction of the offenders - perhaps young men of colour are really that much more likely to not flinch when someone 'who looks like them' approaches? Paradoxically 'more policing' in the broadest sense seems to lead to less crime, at least by some measures [1], but that doesn't take into account level of assertion. There are too many variables to just assume that police are, in most cases under or over policing with respect to application of the law. [1] https://around.uoregon.edu/content/study-finds-largely-black-cities-are-over-or-under-policed https://around.uoregon.edu/content/study-finds-largely-black...