4 ms·

If that group was relying on Google, that's on them at this point. If you use any Google product, you better have an alternative ready. There's no telling when

If that group was relying on Google, that's on them at this point. If you use any Google product, you better have an alternative ready. There's no telling when Google will either shut the product down, or just ban you.

jcranmer 6y ago
comp.lang.c is a Usenet forum, that Google Groups provides access to. You can access it from any NNTP server that provides the core of Usenet without using Groups, and it's better not to use Google's horrible interface anyways.
- mnd999 6y ago
  I guess I’m getting old but I’m always amazed when people don’t know what Usenet is. Or at least aren’t able to spot a Usenet group by name.
  - Silhouette 6y ago
    Every ISP I used a decade or two ago had its own Usenet server. No ISP I have used in recent years does. They have all been switched off, with the ISP citing low levels of use. It's hard to blame them, with modern Web-based discussion forums able to do better in almost every way, but that's a lot of freely available information and insight about a lot of subjects that is being consigned to history. Maybe one of the official national libraries is at least keeping an archive of old Usenet content, though I'm not aware that any of them is (at least, not making the archive publicly available at present).
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      Last time I used an actual usenet group must have been around 2000 or so. I have no idea how I'd set up NNTP and get to a group now. Not that it wouldn't take me long to work it out, but I'd have to start from first principles.
      - u801e 6y ago
        I was regularly posting to several groups as late as 2014. But setting up access is no different than configuring a mail client.
        hackmiester 6y ago
        I haven’t manually configured a mail client in well over 10 years.
        shadowgovt 6y ago
        Configuring a mail client exceeds the technical comfort of most web users.
    - cbm-vic-20 6y ago
      That, and the fact that the bulk of Usenet traffic is encoded binaries of copyrighted media and porn of varying levels of legality. The amount of traffic in the "big 7" hierarchy (like comp.*) is tiny compared to that.
      - formerly_proven 6y ago
        I never got how this works. All of those encrypted binaries can only be decrypted using keys posted to private invite-only forums/groups. What's the point in making that extra detour through "binary usenet providers" compared to just having a private tracker?
        freeone3000 6y ago
        Primarily, bittorrent didn't exist until 2001. Secondarily, you need to find a person to seed a private tracker, and bandwidth is limited to the seed host. You pay to share the content. With the binary server, it's the speed of the NNTP host. Users pay to download the content.
    - u801e 6y ago
      > No ISP I have used in recent years does. They have all been switched off, with the ISP citing low levels of use. The event that lead to a lot of ISPs dropping their NNTP service was when Andrew Cuomo, when he was the attorney general of New York, made a deal with several ISPs to block access to child porn[1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/technology/10iht-net.1.13596502.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/technology/10iht-net.1.13...
    - asveikau 6y ago
      It was probably hard for an ISP to justify when dejanews, later acquired and transformed into google groups, was providing adequate access.
      - alisonkisk 6y ago
        It's hard to justify when 99% of ISP's current customers will never understand what usenet is no matter what.
    - mmcgaha 6y ago
      In the mid 90s the only reason that I wanted internet access was for usenet. The web felt insignificant compared to the information available on usenet. It did not matter the topic, there was a discussion group for it. Web sites and services slowly started to move me away from reading Usenet to the point today where I check posts maybe three times per year. For the heck of it, I just fired up tin to see how many posts since I read last: 1 3866 alt.folklore.computers Stories & anecdotes about computers (some true!). 2 151 alt.hacker No description. 3 1951 alt.obituaries Notices of dead folks. 4 13 comp.graphics.algorithms Algorithms used in producing computer graphics. 5 5021 comp.lang.c Discussion about C. 6 17 comp.os.linux.hardware Hardware compatibility with the Linux operating system. 7 1 comp.os.linux.setup Linux installation and system administration. 8 30 comp.sys.hp48 Hewlett-Packard's HP48 and HP28 calculators. 9 comp.unix.misc Various topics that don't fit other groups. 10 501 comp.unix.programmer Q&A for people programming under Unix. 11 1 comp.unix.questions UNIX neophytes group. 12 1190 comp.unix.shell Using and programming the Unix shell. 13 comp.unix.admin Administering a Unix-based system. 14 465 comp.misc General topics about computers not covered elsewhere. 15 138 rec.games.roguelike.nethack The computer game Nethack. 16 4001 comp.lang.python The Python computer language. 17 2119 comp.sys.raspberry-pi Raspberry Pi computers & related hardware and software. 18 8 alt.sources Alternative source code, unmoderated. Caveat Emptor. Not completely dead yet.
      - ljm 6y ago
        I could imagine accessing terminals in System Shock or Deus Ex and just reading a few lines of those descriptions to show what kind of thing the owner was interested in. The old internet truly is a window into a different world.
  - strokirk 6y ago
    Where would you learn about it? I've never seen an invite or an indication that any form of contribution is welcomed, or even possible.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      You don't "get an invite". You use an NNTP client to access from a service that supports the protocol. Once upon a time this was handled by one's ISP. The only trick is figuring out how to post to alt.hackers where your contribution isn't welcome unless you can "hack" your way in.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - u801e 6y ago
      > Where would you learn about [usenet]? In the late '90s up through 2010 or so, one's ISP would provide instructions for configuring one's mail and news clients to access their email and usenet. From there, the client would show a list of groups and you could choose which ones to subscribe to.
- makomk 6y ago
  You can access the current posts from any good NNTP server, but Usenet isn't used that much these days anyway. What's more interesting is the historic posts from its heyday and I think Google might own the only good archive of them by virtue of purchasing it.
- sgt 6y ago
  At some point Google will ask themselves why they are spending money on running Google Groups in the first place. They may just decide to pull the plug.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    That's the default trajectory for most things that google acquires. It gets ingested with a lot of fanfare, then gets integrated in some half assed way, you get a lot of funny colors you never cared about in the first place and eventually it just withers. Dejanews used to be a fantastic resource, and beat the pants of the likes of stackoverflow.
- u801e 6y ago
  But if you want to find a particular post, it really depends on the retention policy of the server you use. Free ones may have a year of retention. Commercial one's have 12 years or so. The only one that I know of where one can find posts further back than that is Google groups.
  - christophergray 6y ago
    astranews has comp.lang.c back to 30 June 2003.
    - u801e 6y ago
      Astraweb's landing page states they have 4000 days of retention (which corresponds to March 2010 as of the time of this post). I guess certain text groups have signfiicantly longer retention times.
Tomte 6y ago
They don't. It's a Usenet group. Google bought Dejanews and was an acceptable Usenet archive, for a time. Then Google put the Usenet groups under the same umbrella as their proprietary groups. Then their index became spotty (and you could retrieve some posts under groups.google.com, but not groups.google.de, or vice versa). Today, Google Groups is near useless for Usenet.
- erlich 6y ago
  Google is so bad at product.
- tannhaeuser 6y ago
  The default assumption for interpreting Google's actions is always that they want to close down communication channels they can't inject their ads into and/or can't control as a monopoly. Such that the fscking web with their millions of trackers dominated by G becomes the only form of digital communication possible. As happened with Usenet, XMPP, MMS, HTML/browsers, etc.

jcranmer 6y ago

comp.lang.c is a Usenet forum, that Google Groups provides access to. You can access it from any NNTP server that provides the core of Usenet without using Groups, and it's better not to use Google's horrible interface anyways.

mnd999 6y ago
I guess I’m getting old but I’m always amazed when people don’t know what Usenet is. Or at least aren’t able to spot a Usenet group by name.
- Silhouette 6y ago
  Every ISP I used a decade or two ago had its own Usenet server. No ISP I have used in recent years does. They have all been switched off, with the ISP citing low levels of use. It's hard to blame them, with modern Web-based discussion forums able to do better in almost every way, but that's a lot of freely available information and insight about a lot of subjects that is being consigned to history. Maybe one of the official national libraries is at least keeping an archive of old Usenet content, though I'm not aware that any of them is (at least, not making the archive publicly available at present).
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    Last time I used an actual usenet group must have been around 2000 or so. I have no idea how I'd set up NNTP and get to a group now. Not that it wouldn't take me long to work it out, but I'd have to start from first principles.
    - u801e 6y ago
      I was regularly posting to several groups as late as 2014. But setting up access is no different than configuring a mail client.
      - hackmiester 6y ago
        I haven’t manually configured a mail client in well over 10 years.
      - shadowgovt 6y ago
        Configuring a mail client exceeds the technical comfort of most web users.
  - cbm-vic-20 6y ago
    That, and the fact that the bulk of Usenet traffic is encoded binaries of copyrighted media and porn of varying levels of legality. The amount of traffic in the "big 7" hierarchy (like comp.*) is tiny compared to that.
    - formerly_proven 6y ago
      I never got how this works. All of those encrypted binaries can only be decrypted using keys posted to private invite-only forums/groups. What's the point in making that extra detour through "binary usenet providers" compared to just having a private tracker?
      - freeone3000 6y ago
        Primarily, bittorrent didn't exist until 2001. Secondarily, you need to find a person to seed a private tracker, and bandwidth is limited to the seed host. You pay to share the content. With the binary server, it's the speed of the NNTP host. Users pay to download the content.
  - u801e 6y ago
    > No ISP I have used in recent years does. They have all been switched off, with the ISP citing low levels of use. The event that lead to a lot of ISPs dropping their NNTP service was when Andrew Cuomo, when he was the attorney general of New York, made a deal with several ISPs to block access to child porn[1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/technology/10iht-net.1.13596502.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/10/technology/10iht-net.1.13...
  - asveikau 6y ago
    It was probably hard for an ISP to justify when dejanews, later acquired and transformed into google groups, was providing adequate access.
    - alisonkisk 6y ago
      It's hard to justify when 99% of ISP's current customers will never understand what usenet is no matter what.
  - mmcgaha 6y ago
    In the mid 90s the only reason that I wanted internet access was for usenet. The web felt insignificant compared to the information available on usenet. It did not matter the topic, there was a discussion group for it. Web sites and services slowly started to move me away from reading Usenet to the point today where I check posts maybe three times per year. For the heck of it, I just fired up tin to see how many posts since I read last: 1 3866 alt.folklore.computers Stories & anecdotes about computers (some true!). 2 151 alt.hacker No description. 3 1951 alt.obituaries Notices of dead folks. 4 13 comp.graphics.algorithms Algorithms used in producing computer graphics. 5 5021 comp.lang.c Discussion about C. 6 17 comp.os.linux.hardware Hardware compatibility with the Linux operating system. 7 1 comp.os.linux.setup Linux installation and system administration. 8 30 comp.sys.hp48 Hewlett-Packard's HP48 and HP28 calculators. 9 comp.unix.misc Various topics that don't fit other groups. 10 501 comp.unix.programmer Q&A for people programming under Unix. 11 1 comp.unix.questions UNIX neophytes group. 12 1190 comp.unix.shell Using and programming the Unix shell. 13 comp.unix.admin Administering a Unix-based system. 14 465 comp.misc General topics about computers not covered elsewhere. 15 138 rec.games.roguelike.nethack The computer game Nethack. 16 4001 comp.lang.python The Python computer language. 17 2119 comp.sys.raspberry-pi Raspberry Pi computers & related hardware and software. 18 8 alt.sources Alternative source code, unmoderated. Caveat Emptor. Not completely dead yet.
    - ljm 6y ago
      I could imagine accessing terminals in System Shock or Deus Ex and just reading a few lines of those descriptions to show what kind of thing the owner was interested in. The old internet truly is a window into a different world.
- strokirk 6y ago
  Where would you learn about it? I've never seen an invite or an indication that any form of contribution is welcomed, or even possible.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    You don't "get an invite". You use an NNTP client to access from a service that supports the protocol. Once upon a time this was handled by one's ISP. The only trick is figuring out how to post to alt.hackers where your contribution isn't welcome unless you can "hack" your way in.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - u801e 6y ago
    > Where would you learn about [usenet]? In the late '90s up through 2010 or so, one's ISP would provide instructions for configuring one's mail and news clients to access their email and usenet. From there, the client would show a list of groups and you could choose which ones to subscribe to.
makomk 6y ago
You can access the current posts from any good NNTP server, but Usenet isn't used that much these days anyway. What's more interesting is the historic posts from its heyday and I think Google might own the only good archive of them by virtue of purchasing it.
sgt 6y ago
At some point Google will ask themselves why they are spending money on running Google Groups in the first place. They may just decide to pull the plug.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  That's the default trajectory for most things that google acquires. It gets ingested with a lot of fanfare, then gets integrated in some half assed way, you get a lot of funny colors you never cared about in the first place and eventually it just withers. Dejanews used to be a fantastic resource, and beat the pants of the likes of stackoverflow.
u801e 6y ago
But if you want to find a particular post, it really depends on the retention policy of the server you use. Free ones may have a year of retention. Commercial one's have 12 years or so. The only one that I know of where one can find posts further back than that is Google groups.
- christophergray 6y ago
  astranews has comp.lang.c back to 30 June 2003.
  - u801e 6y ago
    Astraweb's landing page states they have 4000 days of retention (which corresponds to March 2010 as of the time of this post). I guess certain text groups have signfiicantly longer retention times.

Tomte 6y ago

They don't. It's a Usenet group. Google bought Dejanews and was an acceptable Usenet archive, for a time. Then Google put the Usenet groups under the same umbrella as their proprietary groups. Then their index became spotty (and you could retrieve some posts under groups.google.com, but not groups.google.de, or vice versa). Today, Google Groups is near useless for Usenet.

erlich 6y ago
Google is so bad at product.
tannhaeuser 6y ago
The default assumption for interpreting Google's actions is always that they want to close down communication channels they can't inject their ads into and/or can't control as a monopoly. Such that the fscking web with their millions of trackers dominated by G becomes the only form of digital communication possible. As happened with Usenet, XMPP, MMS, HTML/browsers, etc.