5 ms·

When it comes to the essentials, we are so post-scarcity that it isn't even funny, yet many people still aren't happy. Even with near-infinite food, clothes, &

When it comes to the essentials, we are so post-scarcity that it isn't even funny, yet many people still aren't happy. Even with near-infinite food, clothes, & shelter, there's still only one first-place. Power is all there is. Money is just how we keep score. Shuffle the money around all you want, the power imbalances will still be there. Giving up the fight for personal development and economic relevance for a steady check is the first step onto the plantation. Plenty of people are already there -- employed & unemployed alike.

imbnwa 6y ago
> Giving up the fight for personal development and economic relevance for a steady check is the first step onto the plantation. Please don't
- chaganated 6y ago
  ???
lifeplusplus 6y ago
I believe with UBI people will be able to finally do what they are naturally programmed to do, be creative and work on things they'd rather despite how low it pays but could have potentially 100x returns down the line.
- chaganated 6y ago
  So, the people who are flushing the world down the toilet with finance and adtech will finally use their powers for good... if we'd just give them a meager stipend? Ha! Material isn't the problem. Hasn't been for a long time. Most of us in the west who've been professionally employed for any length of time have enough savings right now to go play gentleman artist/scientist in parts of India, Southeast Asia, or South America, but we don't. I wonder why that is...
  - lifeplusplus 6y ago
    in usa most people live paycheck to paycheck. Who are in tech/finance/medical field just can afford few more checks. If you have mortgage then you pretty much in constant need of constant income, or outcome is losing a house. On a scale severe consequences that is pretty detrimental your wellbeing. Also spending $10k to "help" someone in a country where people survive on $80 annually is an oxymoron, just the plane ticket could have supported entire village. They don't lack in man power but resources. In my view, people who go there are mostly self indulgent. Exception being medical professionals. Open source is testament to people's will to do things that are creative and for greater good. we are after all community oriented creatures it makes sense we would have traits that benefit community as a whole. The modern answer to what human civilization ought to be is fundamentally anti-human. It's so far removed from how humans have lived for entirety. Humans always have lived as a village not just as family units. Land used to be owned by tribes, if you were born in the tribe, the land was already yours to build. Family (ultra socialism), Tribe, (extreme socialism), Village (mix of socialism), between outsiders (capitalism) now it's not mutually beneficial and equitable. connection with tribe has been replaced with 'work'. where your efforts are rewarded with least possible amount other party can get away with. And can be 'outcasted' on a whim. I don't know what's the answer, but first step must be to recognize it. although we don't know why, but we have all yearned at some point to be sitting around large campfire and listen to stories from mid size group of people and have laughs. because it was given and normal, and then lost. but our nature remembers it.
    - chaganated 6y ago
      > in usa most people live paycheck to paycheck give them more money, and they will still live p2p. > spending $10k to "help" someone in a country where people... Never mentioned that. Did mention that many people in the developed world already have enough assets to retire comfortably in a developing country. From there, they would have the time and the money to "do things that are creative and for the greater good," yet very few people avail themselves of this opportunity. > Family (ultra socialism), Tribe, (extreme socialism), Village (mix of socialism), between outsiders (capitalism) Socialism/Capitalism are industrial age concepts. Industrial society as a precondition of proper socialism was a major sticking-point in early soviet Russia, being that they wanted socialism, yet had little industry. Family/tribe/village is blood. > I don't know what's the answer, but first step must be to recognize it. I know that UBI isn't it. Whether it's socialism or capitalism, competition remains. Socialists jockey for power and position just like the capitalists. In a competition, if you give everyone the same "Universal Basic" leg-up, it stops being a leg-up. It's point-inflation! Since we are speaking of governments & financial systems rather than games, that leg-up is pernicious. The poor will remain poor, the rich will remain rich, yet it will reduce many people in the middle into dependency -- without the subsidy (& corresponding price inflation), they could cover their necessities without assistance, but with the subsidy, and with the inflation, the transfer payment goes from "nice to have" to necessity. It turns democratic process on its head -- another "third rail" for politicians, corporations, non-profits, NGOs to scare/blackmail voters with. > we have all yearned at some point to be sitting around large campfire and... I respect your Uncle Ted vision. Maybe you should read what old Ted wrote about leftists in general?

imbnwa 6y ago

> Giving up the fight for personal development and economic relevance for a steady check is the first step onto the plantation. Please don't

chaganated 6y ago
???

lifeplusplus 6y ago

I believe with UBI people will be able to finally do what they are naturally programmed to do, be creative and work on things they'd rather despite how low it pays but could have potentially 100x returns down the line.

chaganated 6y ago
So, the people who are flushing the world down the toilet with finance and adtech will finally use their powers for good... if we'd just give them a meager stipend? Ha! Material isn't the problem. Hasn't been for a long time. Most of us in the west who've been professionally employed for any length of time have enough savings right now to go play gentleman artist/scientist in parts of India, Southeast Asia, or South America, but we don't. I wonder why that is...
- lifeplusplus 6y ago
  in usa most people live paycheck to paycheck. Who are in tech/finance/medical field just can afford few more checks. If you have mortgage then you pretty much in constant need of constant income, or outcome is losing a house. On a scale severe consequences that is pretty detrimental your wellbeing. Also spending $10k to "help" someone in a country where people survive on $80 annually is an oxymoron, just the plane ticket could have supported entire village. They don't lack in man power but resources. In my view, people who go there are mostly self indulgent. Exception being medical professionals. Open source is testament to people's will to do things that are creative and for greater good. we are after all community oriented creatures it makes sense we would have traits that benefit community as a whole. The modern answer to what human civilization ought to be is fundamentally anti-human. It's so far removed from how humans have lived for entirety. Humans always have lived as a village not just as family units. Land used to be owned by tribes, if you were born in the tribe, the land was already yours to build. Family (ultra socialism), Tribe, (extreme socialism), Village (mix of socialism), between outsiders (capitalism) now it's not mutually beneficial and equitable. connection with tribe has been replaced with 'work'. where your efforts are rewarded with least possible amount other party can get away with. And can be 'outcasted' on a whim. I don't know what's the answer, but first step must be to recognize it. although we don't know why, but we have all yearned at some point to be sitting around large campfire and listen to stories from mid size group of people and have laughs. because it was given and normal, and then lost. but our nature remembers it.
  - chaganated 6y ago
    > in usa most people live paycheck to paycheck give them more money, and they will still live p2p. > spending $10k to "help" someone in a country where people... Never mentioned that. Did mention that many people in the developed world already have enough assets to retire comfortably in a developing country. From there, they would have the time and the money to "do things that are creative and for the greater good," yet very few people avail themselves of this opportunity. > Family (ultra socialism), Tribe, (extreme socialism), Village (mix of socialism), between outsiders (capitalism) Socialism/Capitalism are industrial age concepts. Industrial society as a precondition of proper socialism was a major sticking-point in early soviet Russia, being that they wanted socialism, yet had little industry. Family/tribe/village is blood. > I don't know what's the answer, but first step must be to recognize it. I know that UBI isn't it. Whether it's socialism or capitalism, competition remains. Socialists jockey for power and position just like the capitalists. In a competition, if you give everyone the same "Universal Basic" leg-up, it stops being a leg-up. It's point-inflation! Since we are speaking of governments & financial systems rather than games, that leg-up is pernicious. The poor will remain poor, the rich will remain rich, yet it will reduce many people in the middle into dependency -- without the subsidy (& corresponding price inflation), they could cover their necessities without assistance, but with the subsidy, and with the inflation, the transfer payment goes from "nice to have" to necessity. It turns democratic process on its head -- another "third rail" for politicians, corporations, non-profits, NGOs to scare/blackmail voters with. > we have all yearned at some point to be sitting around large campfire and... I respect your Uncle Ted vision. Maybe you should read what old Ted wrote about leftists in general?