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Now, this is Hacker News, this community is very close to the SSC one, so I know a lot of people aren't going to take this well. But the Grey Tribe really isn't

Now, this is Hacker News, this community is very close to the SSC one, so I know a lot of people aren't going to take this well. But the Grey Tribe really isn't a nice place to be You can replace Grey Tribe with any tribal affiliation which short-circuits your critical thinking and leads to agreeing to whatever your in-group believes. Blind obedience to any tribe is toxic.

vinceguidry 6y ago
Critical thinking isn't what most people think it is.
- andreilys 6y ago
  If someone asks why you believe in something your response hopefully shouldn’t be based on “because that’s what all Blue/Grey/Red tribe members believe” In a lot of cases the response should be “I’m not sure, I’m not educated on this topic so I can’t offer an opinion”
  - turtleboughs 6y ago
    I think this strikes to the core of the problem with SSC. On most topics, the author was not educated on the topic, and yet still felt qualified to offer an opinion. His writing was entitlement realized. Regardless of whether he understood a topic, he was more than willing to present and interpret facts as he selected then. Almost universally, his interpretations aligned with his world view, regardless of what experts and science suggested. His site was a home and haven for fringe thinking, and fringe thought processes. Most problematically, his site was a place which encouraged people who were not educated in a topic to repeatedly offer opinions on things they did not understand, and often did not want to understand.
    - adwn 6y ago
      > Most problematically, his site was a place which encouraged people who were not educated in a topic to repeatedly offer opinions on things they did not understand, and often did not want to understand. In other words, this little place called "the Internet"? Seriously, what you're describing applies to all gatherings of humans since the dawn of civilization.
      - turtleboughs 6y ago
        The problem of entitled people re-interpreting facts to suit their worldview predates the internet by many millennia. Whether your penultimate "whataboutism" is more or less insightful than this ultimate observation is not an interesting question.
      - AngrySkillzz 6y ago
        I mean, it's definitely very similar to HN in that way, at least. Watching people here talk about econ or finance makes me want to smash my head against a wall - because econ is just politics, right, and you're entitled to confidently shout your opinion even if you have very little background in the field, right? And then we look around and think that this is "enlightened conversation;" nah, it's just a bunch of techies who think they are much smarter and more informed than they actually are.
      - ycombinete 6y ago
        It is reassuring to me that someone who uses thought terminating cliche dog-whistle terms like “problematic” and “entitled” feels the need to use a throwaway account.
- eli_gottlieb 6y ago
  Critical thinking is most especially not polemical thinking aimed at rationalizing a desired conclusion.

vinceguidry 6y ago

Critical thinking isn't what most people think it is.

andreilys 6y ago
If someone asks why you believe in something your response hopefully shouldn’t be based on “because that’s what all Blue/Grey/Red tribe members believe” In a lot of cases the response should be “I’m not sure, I’m not educated on this topic so I can’t offer an opinion”
- turtleboughs 6y ago
  I think this strikes to the core of the problem with SSC. On most topics, the author was not educated on the topic, and yet still felt qualified to offer an opinion. His writing was entitlement realized. Regardless of whether he understood a topic, he was more than willing to present and interpret facts as he selected then. Almost universally, his interpretations aligned with his world view, regardless of what experts and science suggested. His site was a home and haven for fringe thinking, and fringe thought processes. Most problematically, his site was a place which encouraged people who were not educated in a topic to repeatedly offer opinions on things they did not understand, and often did not want to understand.
  - adwn 6y ago
    > Most problematically, his site was a place which encouraged people who were not educated in a topic to repeatedly offer opinions on things they did not understand, and often did not want to understand. In other words, this little place called "the Internet"? Seriously, what you're describing applies to all gatherings of humans since the dawn of civilization.
    - turtleboughs 6y ago
      The problem of entitled people re-interpreting facts to suit their worldview predates the internet by many millennia. Whether your penultimate "whataboutism" is more or less insightful than this ultimate observation is not an interesting question.
    - AngrySkillzz 6y ago
      I mean, it's definitely very similar to HN in that way, at least. Watching people here talk about econ or finance makes me want to smash my head against a wall - because econ is just politics, right, and you're entitled to confidently shout your opinion even if you have very little background in the field, right? And then we look around and think that this is "enlightened conversation;" nah, it's just a bunch of techies who think they are much smarter and more informed than they actually are.
    - ycombinete 6y ago
      It is reassuring to me that someone who uses thought terminating cliche dog-whistle terms like “problematic” and “entitled” feels the need to use a throwaway account.
eli_gottlieb 6y ago
Critical thinking is most especially not polemical thinking aimed at rationalizing a desired conclusion.