4 ms·

I think we have to understand that Google is a large company filled with people with technical skills. These people are rewarded for contributing to open source

I think we have to understand that Google is a large company filled with people with technical skills. These people are rewarded for contributing to open source. So they do. That's it. It is entirely possible that maybe Google employees might want a feature that others don't, but I haven't seen that evidence. In 10 years of developing Go, I know of only 2 things that the community has disagreed on with the Go team - package management and generics. One is already fixed and the other will be in a year. Nothing I can think of wrt their contributions to Rust, Kotlin, C++, Python etc. No one has ever articulated why it's a bad thing that Google sponsors open source development. If someone could articulate specific reasons, that'd be great. But this kind of FUD comment ("hmm, they sponsor an awful lot don't they") doesn't add much.

mrmonkeyman 6y ago
This lacks nuance. You ignore the effect they have on the ecosystem as a whole. Mentioning the "Go community" and their "agreement" of Google's decisions without acknowledging this is disingenuous at best. They have already swayed and gatekept large swaths of the (web)development "community" by their decade-long dominance and no one can make an impactful, meaningful decision in that field without their implicit approval. Their dominance is felt best by the way they control the conversation i.e. what we don't talk about - i.e. the web among other things they touch sucks, continues to suck and it is going to get worse and less free and they are significant negative contributers. So yeah, I'd rather see them cut into pieces.
- nindalf 6y ago
  Your comment lacks any content. You make vague claims of "effect on the ecosystem" without mentioning what that is. Give an example. Can people not create web frameworks? Can people not create products hosted on the web? Can people not use AWS or Azure for all their computing needs? You can't just claim "everything they touch sucks" without a single example or evidence to back it up. You look like a hater.
  - cnl 6y ago
    The pro-Googlers are out in force today, also in the "visionary" Python topic. FYI, often it is not possible to mention specifics because "open" source projects tightly control member opinions these days.
    - nindalf 6y ago
      Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment.
      - cambalache 6y ago
        > Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment. If this is true (I doubt it) it is even sadder
        dang 6y ago
        Please don't break the HN guidelines like this. We're trying for something quite different here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - smoldesu 6y ago
      A lot of people here aren't necessarily pro-Googlers, but rather open-source contributors who want to secure a future for themselves. That's not a bad thing, and Google's partnership with open-source has been mostly benevolent. People are quick to point to the "killed by Google" argument, but how is Google going to kill an open project? If they stop funding it and nobody takes up the mantle of maintaining it, maybe it's not actually that useful anyways. In either case, you still have the option to maintain the code yourself.
yannoninator 6y ago
This does not warrant them giving them a board seat just because they have cash. Go is moot point because they control that language anyway, people have no say on it except people who work at Google. No surprise that you cannot donate any money there.
- nindalf 6y ago
  Foundation needs money (to hire employees) and resources (server time and bandwidth) to run. Sponsors of the foundation will fund this. It's as simple as that. Point out where this arrangement hasn't worked well. Otherwise you're just spreading FUD.
  - yannoninator 6y ago
    Never said I was against sponsorship, just don't put them on the board of directors, a gold/plat sponsorship without votes will do. Examples of foundations and centers that do this are R, OCaml, Zig and Ruby. All successful. > Point out where this arrangement hasn't worked well. Otherwise you're just spreading FUD. W3C and DRM, do you know who voted for this and who is on the board of directors of the W3C? If you need some time I'll wait.

mrmonkeyman 6y ago

This lacks nuance. You ignore the effect they have on the ecosystem as a whole. Mentioning the "Go community" and their "agreement" of Google's decisions without acknowledging this is disingenuous at best. They have already swayed and gatekept large swaths of the (web)development "community" by their decade-long dominance and no one can make an impactful, meaningful decision in that field without their implicit approval. Their dominance is felt best by the way they control the conversation i.e. what we don't talk about - i.e. the web among other things they touch sucks, continues to suck and it is going to get worse and less free and they are significant negative contributers. So yeah, I'd rather see them cut into pieces.

nindalf 6y ago
Your comment lacks any content. You make vague claims of "effect on the ecosystem" without mentioning what that is. Give an example. Can people not create web frameworks? Can people not create products hosted on the web? Can people not use AWS or Azure for all their computing needs? You can't just claim "everything they touch sucks" without a single example or evidence to back it up. You look like a hater.
- cnl 6y ago
  The pro-Googlers are out in force today, also in the "visionary" Python topic. FYI, often it is not possible to mention specifics because "open" source projects tightly control member opinions these days.
  - nindalf 6y ago
    Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment.
    - cambalache 6y ago
      > Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment. If this is true (I doubt it) it is even sadder
      - dang 6y ago
        Please don't break the HN guidelines like this. We're trying for something quite different here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - smoldesu 6y ago
    A lot of people here aren't necessarily pro-Googlers, but rather open-source contributors who want to secure a future for themselves. That's not a bad thing, and Google's partnership with open-source has been mostly benevolent. People are quick to point to the "killed by Google" argument, but how is Google going to kill an open project? If they stop funding it and nobody takes up the mantle of maintaining it, maybe it's not actually that useful anyways. In either case, you still have the option to maintain the code yourself.

yannoninator 6y ago

This does not warrant them giving them a board seat just because they have cash. Go is moot point because they control that language anyway, people have no say on it except people who work at Google. No surprise that you cannot donate any money there.

nindalf 6y ago
Foundation needs money (to hire employees) and resources (server time and bandwidth) to run. Sponsors of the foundation will fund this. It's as simple as that. Point out where this arrangement hasn't worked well. Otherwise you're just spreading FUD.
- yannoninator 6y ago
  Never said I was against sponsorship, just don't put them on the board of directors, a gold/plat sponsorship without votes will do. Examples of foundations and centers that do this are R, OCaml, Zig and Ruby. All successful. > Point out where this arrangement hasn't worked well. Otherwise you're just spreading FUD. W3C and DRM, do you know who voted for this and who is on the board of directors of the W3C? If you need some time I'll wait.