4 ms·

This is great for Kotlin! But I need to make an observation about Google... They're also co-founders of the Rust Foundation[1], the major member of the select

by brabel 6y ago

This is great for Kotlin! But I need to make an observation about Google... They're also co-founders of the Rust Foundation[1], the major member of the select group of companies at the table at WHATWG[2] (which amongst other things decide on the future of web technologies, including JavaScript) due to their browser's market share, and a "visionary sponsor" of the Python Foundation[3]. They also develop a few programming languages themselves, like Go and Dart (not to mention their polemic Java implementation), besides their own OS (Android, Fuchsia). A company as large as Google is kind of expected to be using every technology in existence, but I still find it interesting how they're also making sure they also play a major role in the evoluation of such technologies by being part of any Foundation that might have any relevance whatsoever (if not via their own languages, at least by exerting influence on everything). [1] https://foundation.rust-lang.org/posts/2021-02-08-hello-world/ https://foundation.rust-lang.org/posts/2021-02-08-hello-worl... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHATWG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHATWG [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26121937 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26121937

yannoninator 6y ago
Sure, I do welcome the language getting support however, I can't help but think it may be to do with them being fined by Oracle in that lawsuit costing Google billions. But who knows, we are not allowed to ask these questions, just like why DRM was allowed into the web standard and W3C kept the votes secret. I don't like the route we are heading.
nindalf 6y ago
I think we have to understand that Google is a large company filled with people with technical skills. These people are rewarded for contributing to open source. So they do. That's it. It is entirely possible that maybe Google employees might want a feature that others don't, but I haven't seen that evidence. In 10 years of developing Go, I know of only 2 things that the community has disagreed on with the Go team - package management and generics. One is already fixed and the other will be in a year. Nothing I can think of wrt their contributions to Rust, Kotlin, C++, Python etc. No one has ever articulated why it's a bad thing that Google sponsors open source development. If someone could articulate specific reasons, that'd be great. But this kind of FUD comment ("hmm, they sponsor an awful lot don't they") doesn't add much.
- mrmonkeyman 6y ago
  This lacks nuance. You ignore the effect they have on the ecosystem as a whole. Mentioning the "Go community" and their "agreement" of Google's decisions without acknowledging this is disingenuous at best. They have already swayed and gatekept large swaths of the (web)development "community" by their decade-long dominance and no one can make an impactful, meaningful decision in that field without their implicit approval. Their dominance is felt best by the way they control the conversation i.e. what we don't talk about - i.e. the web among other things they touch sucks, continues to suck and it is going to get worse and less free and they are significant negative contributers. So yeah, I'd rather see them cut into pieces.
  - nindalf 6y ago
    Your comment lacks any content. You make vague claims of "effect on the ecosystem" without mentioning what that is. Give an example. Can people not create web frameworks? Can people not create products hosted on the web? Can people not use AWS or Azure for all their computing needs? You can't just claim "everything they touch sucks" without a single example or evidence to back it up. You look like a hater.
    - cnl 6y ago
      The pro-Googlers are out in force today, also in the "visionary" Python topic. FYI, often it is not possible to mention specifics because "open" source projects tightly control member opinions these days.
      - nindalf 6y ago
        Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment.
        cambalache 6y ago
alexfromapex 6y ago
Google needs a real competitor, I feel like people don’t try to create search engines because it’s such a monolithic task and Google is so far ahead
- MikeDelta 6y ago
  I read an article in the FT recently saying that a new batch of startups is looking at competing with Google in the search-engine field [0]. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/24efc152-a65d-4c48-9032-ee349a2c885b https://www.ft.com/content/24efc152-a65d-4c48-9032-ee349a2c8...
  - MikeTheGreat 6y ago
    Sorry for the off-topic post: Is there a good way to get non-paywalled access to this? It says I can read it if I register but today that's just one step too many for me ("_Another_ account? Really? sigh" :) ) I'm kinda curious to know why anyone is trying to start a new search engine(s), given both Google and Bing. (But apparently not curious enough to give my email address to Yet Another Website :) )
    - piokoch 6y ago
      Copy title, paste into search engine box and access from the search engine list. It seems FT wants to get the traffic and the indexing more than money from subscription.
      - MikeTheGreat 6y ago
        Huh. That worked really well. I feel like a goofball for not trying that myself, but appreciate the advice/tip. Thanks!
  - heavyset_go 6y ago
    How many of these startups plan to actually compete instead of planning to be bought up by Google or Microsoft?
dragonwriter 6y ago
> A company as large as Google is kind of expected to be using every technology in existence Moreover, as a public cloud provider, they are ultimately expected to be supporting virtually every technology in existence. Amazon (explicitly as AWS, usually) and Microsoft have pretty similar degree of foundation involvement
vram22 6y ago
What is your point? Maybe you need to make it more clear. Note:I am neither pro nor con Google, although I have both praised them and critized them in the past, for different things.
jgimenez 6y ago
What's in it for them, though? Just being users of a language does mean they need to back them up financially or set up foundations or influence them in any way

by brabel 6y ago

yannoninator 6y ago

Sure, I do welcome the language getting support however, I can't help but think it may be to do with them being fined by Oracle in that lawsuit costing Google billions. But who knows, we are not allowed to ask these questions, just like why DRM was allowed into the web standard and W3C kept the votes secret. I don't like the route we are heading.

nindalf 6y ago

I think we have to understand that Google is a large company filled with people with technical skills. These people are rewarded for contributing to open source. So they do. That's it. It is entirely possible that maybe Google employees might want a feature that others don't, but I haven't seen that evidence. In 10 years of developing Go, I know of only 2 things that the community has disagreed on with the Go team - package management and generics. One is already fixed and the other will be in a year. Nothing I can think of wrt their contributions to Rust, Kotlin, C++, Python etc. No one has ever articulated why it's a bad thing that Google sponsors open source development. If someone could articulate specific reasons, that'd be great. But this kind of FUD comment ("hmm, they sponsor an awful lot don't they") doesn't add much.

mrmonkeyman 6y ago
This lacks nuance. You ignore the effect they have on the ecosystem as a whole. Mentioning the "Go community" and their "agreement" of Google's decisions without acknowledging this is disingenuous at best. They have already swayed and gatekept large swaths of the (web)development "community" by their decade-long dominance and no one can make an impactful, meaningful decision in that field without their implicit approval. Their dominance is felt best by the way they control the conversation i.e. what we don't talk about - i.e. the web among other things they touch sucks, continues to suck and it is going to get worse and less free and they are significant negative contributers. So yeah, I'd rather see them cut into pieces.
- nindalf 6y ago
  Your comment lacks any content. You make vague claims of "effect on the ecosystem" without mentioning what that is. Give an example. Can people not create web frameworks? Can people not create products hosted on the web? Can people not use AWS or Azure for all their computing needs? You can't just claim "everything they touch sucks" without a single example or evidence to back it up. You look like a hater.
  - cnl 6y ago
    The pro-Googlers are out in force today, also in the "visionary" Python topic. FYI, often it is not possible to mention specifics because "open" source projects tightly control member opinions these days.
    - nindalf 6y ago
      Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment.
      - cambalache 6y ago

alexfromapex 6y ago

Google needs a real competitor, I feel like people don’t try to create search engines because it’s such a monolithic task and Google is so far ahead

MikeDelta 6y ago
I read an article in the FT recently saying that a new batch of startups is looking at competing with Google in the search-engine field [0]. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/24efc152-a65d-4c48-9032-ee349a2c885b https://www.ft.com/content/24efc152-a65d-4c48-9032-ee349a2c8...
- MikeTheGreat 6y ago
  Sorry for the off-topic post: Is there a good way to get non-paywalled access to this? It says I can read it if I register but today that's just one step too many for me ("_Another_ account? Really? sigh" :) ) I'm kinda curious to know why anyone is trying to start a new search engine(s), given both Google and Bing. (But apparently not curious enough to give my email address to Yet Another Website :) )
  - piokoch 6y ago
    Copy title, paste into search engine box and access from the search engine list. It seems FT wants to get the traffic and the indexing more than money from subscription.
    - MikeTheGreat 6y ago
      Huh. That worked really well. I feel like a goofball for not trying that myself, but appreciate the advice/tip. Thanks!
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  How many of these startups plan to actually compete instead of planning to be bought up by Google or Microsoft?

dragonwriter 6y ago

> A company as large as Google is kind of expected to be using every technology in existence Moreover, as a public cloud provider, they are ultimately expected to be supporting virtually every technology in existence. Amazon (explicitly as AWS, usually) and Microsoft have pretty similar degree of foundation involvement

vram22 6y ago

What is your point? Maybe you need to make it more clear. Note:I am neither pro nor con Google, although I have both praised them and critized them in the past, for different things.

jgimenez 6y ago

What's in it for them, though? Just being users of a language does mean they need to back them up financially or set up foundations or influence them in any way