4 ms·

Action and habit

164 points by te_platt 15y ago

gohat 15y ago
This post is very insightful. To break down what it says, and offer my own thoughts, often, the path to doing something at first challenging is: thought -> action -> habit, belief/better life or outcome. Achievable steps is also key. Trying to rush the process and immediately reach the endpoint results in frustration. So, "I want to learn to swim" => Spend 15 minutes practicing => Spend 15 minutes practicing 3 times a week... and so on, gradually ramping up is likely to work, while, "I want to learn to swim" => 3 practices weekly of 1 hour is likely to fail, in my experience.
superasn 15y ago
this a great post. but there is one more thing to add to this. it is called inevitability thinking and it is taught by eben pagan. basically what he says is you have this option to program yourself for success (or failure) every time you want to start a new habit. like if you want to develop this habit of starting to go for a jog every morning then you can set yourself up for success doing this. first thing you want to do is keep a pair of running shoes ready by your bed. your track suit should be inside the bathroom. in kitchen there would be a glass of water and some healthy snacked already prepared for the morning. so when you wake up it really eases you in the activity (instead of an uphill climb where you first have to look for shoes, then find the tracksuit is dirty, or you binge eat, etc.. all things which will keep you from doing it are taken care off already)
RyanMcGreal 15y ago
Why is the post by "superasn" dead? It's topical, relevant, has useful information and is not rude or insulting.
- jules 15y ago
  Could it be a false positive triggered by an automated system that kills posts with improper capitalization by new accounts?
ericb 15y ago
Here's to hoping Eliezer is habitually setting aside time for writing more Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.
- swombat 15y ago
  Yes, we need to make him think more about that, so those thoughts can become words, and those words can become bytes, and those bytes can become words again, and then finally return to their thoughtful state in my amused mind :-)
swombat 15y ago
Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny. Under the guise of being a piece of wisdom, this, to me, sounds like a healthy recipe for going insane. Watch your thoughts? Indeed. Might as well try to bite your own teeth. The world becomes a lot more fun and easier to deal with once you stop trying to control everything and realise that things tend to work pretty much ok even if you don't keep a paranoid eye on them. I much prefer the following Haiku: Sitting silently, Doing nothing And the grass grows by itself.
- Meai 15y ago
  Well maybe things working out 'okay' is not good enough? Maybe not everyone has a good life already and actually wants or needs to change? This advice is meant for people that want to change their destiny. It is good that you can be happy with who you are, but some people want to improve drastically, not just by a few minor character alignments over a few decades.
- aaronblohowiak 15y ago
  metacognitive regulation is a skill that takes concerted effort to develop, but is verified by science to impact behavior. practices like cognitive behavioral therapy and buddhism take a similar approach to altering thought habits to influence actions.
  - yelsgib 15y ago
    Verified by science! Oh me oh my! But how do we regulate our metacognitive regulation? And can we regulate that regulation? And ... Biting your own teeth, indeed.
- est 15y ago
  > Sitting silently, > Doing nothing > And the grass grows by itself. And you die of hunger because your crop field is full of grass. Seriously, born in East Asia and had enough the Zen anti-industry crap, I much prefer Mobilis in Mobili. Also don't forget the hilarious "If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by (子在川上曰：逝者如斯乎)" LMAO
yters 15y ago
Quite Biblical. Paul says we are to be transformed through the renewing of our mind.
yelsgib 15y ago
I find posts like this very annoying. As swombat points out, the claim that you should "watch your thoughts" leaves one wondering: how do I do that? The answer I assume I would get, were I to ask the author this question, is: "Just do it!" Of course, the author has conveniently left out details regarding what type of support he received from family/friends/coaches. Anyway, that's exactly why this type of crap isn't useful. To become excellent at a contingent skill (e.g. swimming, chess, math) you must surround yourself with excellent, honest people who care about you. To become excellent at a trascendental skill (e.g. "strength," "bravery") you must isolate yourself and go very deep. There is no other way.
- simon_weber 15y ago
  That seems a bit harsh to me. Self motivation - both through thoughts and through actions - is a very necessary part of building habits. Outside motivation can be great too, but unlike self motivation it's not always available. Will the friends/family/coaches wake up at 5am to convince you not to sleep in? Even if they would, I'd rather be able to do it on my own.
- Jach 15y ago
  >To become excellent at a contingent skill (e.g. swimming, chess, math) you must surround yourself with excellent, honest people who care about you. >To become excellent at a trascendental skill (e.g. "strength," "bravery") you must isolate yourself and go very deep. Isn't this reversed? It feels like it to me. Of course both internal and external methods apply to each.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

164 points by te_platt 15y ago

gohat 15y ago

This post is very insightful. To break down what it says, and offer my own thoughts, often, the path to doing something at first challenging is: thought -> action -> habit, belief/better life or outcome. Achievable steps is also key. Trying to rush the process and immediately reach the endpoint results in frustration. So, "I want to learn to swim" => Spend 15 minutes practicing => Spend 15 minutes practicing 3 times a week... and so on, gradually ramping up is likely to work, while, "I want to learn to swim" => 3 practices weekly of 1 hour is likely to fail, in my experience.

superasn 15y ago

this a great post. but there is one more thing to add to this. it is called inevitability thinking and it is taught by eben pagan. basically what he says is you have this option to program yourself for success (or failure) every time you want to start a new habit. like if you want to develop this habit of starting to go for a jog every morning then you can set yourself up for success doing this. first thing you want to do is keep a pair of running shoes ready by your bed. your track suit should be inside the bathroom. in kitchen there would be a glass of water and some healthy snacked already prepared for the morning. so when you wake up it really eases you in the activity (instead of an uphill climb where you first have to look for shoes, then find the tracksuit is dirty, or you binge eat, etc.. all things which will keep you from doing it are taken care off already)

RyanMcGreal 15y ago

Why is the post by "superasn" dead? It's topical, relevant, has useful information and is not rude or insulting.

jules 15y ago
Could it be a false positive triggered by an automated system that kills posts with improper capitalization by new accounts?

ericb 15y ago

Here's to hoping Eliezer is habitually setting aside time for writing more Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality.

swombat 15y ago
Yes, we need to make him think more about that, so those thoughts can become words, and those words can become bytes, and those bytes can become words again, and then finally return to their thoughtful state in my amused mind :-)

swombat 15y ago

Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become your character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny. Under the guise of being a piece of wisdom, this, to me, sounds like a healthy recipe for going insane. Watch your thoughts? Indeed. Might as well try to bite your own teeth. The world becomes a lot more fun and easier to deal with once you stop trying to control everything and realise that things tend to work pretty much ok even if you don't keep a paranoid eye on them. I much prefer the following Haiku: Sitting silently, Doing nothing And the grass grows by itself.

Meai 15y ago
Well maybe things working out 'okay' is not good enough? Maybe not everyone has a good life already and actually wants or needs to change? This advice is meant for people that want to change their destiny. It is good that you can be happy with who you are, but some people want to improve drastically, not just by a few minor character alignments over a few decades.
aaronblohowiak 15y ago
metacognitive regulation is a skill that takes concerted effort to develop, but is verified by science to impact behavior. practices like cognitive behavioral therapy and buddhism take a similar approach to altering thought habits to influence actions.
- yelsgib 15y ago
  Verified by science! Oh me oh my! But how do we regulate our metacognitive regulation? And can we regulate that regulation? And ... Biting your own teeth, indeed.
est 15y ago
> Sitting silently, > Doing nothing > And the grass grows by itself. And you die of hunger because your crop field is full of grass. Seriously, born in East Asia and had enough the Zen anti-industry crap, I much prefer Mobilis in Mobili. Also don't forget the hilarious "If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by (子在川上曰：逝者如斯乎)" LMAO

yters 15y ago

Quite Biblical. Paul says we are to be transformed through the renewing of our mind.

yelsgib 15y ago

I find posts like this very annoying. As swombat points out, the claim that you should "watch your thoughts" leaves one wondering: how do I do that? The answer I assume I would get, were I to ask the author this question, is: "Just do it!" Of course, the author has conveniently left out details regarding what type of support he received from family/friends/coaches. Anyway, that's exactly why this type of crap isn't useful. To become excellent at a contingent skill (e.g. swimming, chess, math) you must surround yourself with excellent, honest people who care about you. To become excellent at a trascendental skill (e.g. "strength," "bravery") you must isolate yourself and go very deep. There is no other way.

simon_weber 15y ago
That seems a bit harsh to me. Self motivation - both through thoughts and through actions - is a very necessary part of building habits. Outside motivation can be great too, but unlike self motivation it's not always available. Will the friends/family/coaches wake up at 5am to convince you not to sleep in? Even if they would, I'd rather be able to do it on my own.
Jach 15y ago
>To become excellent at a contingent skill (e.g. swimming, chess, math) you must surround yourself with excellent, honest people who care about you. >To become excellent at a trascendental skill (e.g. "strength," "bravery") you must isolate yourself and go very deep. Isn't this reversed? It feels like it to me. Of course both internal and external methods apply to each.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]