5 ms·

I laughed when I got to this: > “It is the one place I know of online where you can have civil conversations among people with a wide range of views,” said Dav

I laughed when I got to this: > “It is the one place I know of online where you can have civil conversations among people with a wide range of views,” said David Friedman, an economist and legal scholar who was a regular part of the discussion. Fellow commenters on the site, he noted, represented a wide cross-section of viewpoints. Yes, David just said that, thanks for the repetition. Where were the editors on this? I conjecture that they just felt like they had to publish something after all this time and they went with what they had. It’s also strange that it doesn’t link to the NYT magazine article on rationalist retreats from a few years ago, nor the New Yorker article about this dispute, nor the New Yorker article about HN, all of which fill in the picture.

bmmayer1 6y ago
> Where were the editors on this? Maybe the good editors at the NYT are too busy getting fired.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- arminiusreturns 6y ago
  For those of you unaware, let me summarize what this is referencing. Recently a NYT freelance editor Lauren Wolfe, who mostly worked on the "live updates" team, was fired, but this firing caused some controversy due to the timing of some tweets and who knows what else. It's not completley clear why she was fired, as the NYT responded to requests for comment by the WaPo by saying [1]: "There’s a lot of inaccurate information circulating on Twitter. For privacy reasons we don’t get into the details of personnel matters but we can say that we didn’t end someone’s employment over a single tweet. Out of respect for the individuals involved we don’t plan to comment further. (To clarify something that has been incorrectly reported, Ms. Wolfe was not a full-time employee, nor did she have a contract.)" Quite a few leftists initially blamed the NYT for caving to conservative pressure, apparently by making the claim there was a relation between the tweets she made and her firing, which she confirmed in another WaPo interview [3] by saying "...that an editor at the paper contacted her after she published the “chills” tweet. The Times couldn’t be associated with such a tweet, said the manager, and that her gig with the paper would be ending." Some leftists also seemed to blame Glenn Greenwald for his involvement in the matter; a single tweet in response to hers that he later called "light mockery"[2]. Glenn Greenwald, previously strongly supported by the left and many others, has recently been victim to a series of character assassination attempts due to his unconformity to the mainstream leftists viewpoints, so it rather seems the twitter left mob just used him as a lightening rod without having all the facts in this case. The tweets in question? LW: "The pettiness of the Trump admin not sending a military plane to bring him to D.C. as is tradition is mortifying. Childish She later deleted the above tweet when it was revealed that Biden and his team chose to take his own plane, despite many mainstream media talking heads parroting the same narrative. LW: “Biden landing at Joint Base Andrews now. I have chills” GG: "If you're in the national press and will be on TV at any point today and being to feel the need to weep joyously, just hold it in until you find a private place. Nobody is expecting any adversarial coverage over the next 4 years, but it's just a matter of personal dignity." 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/01/24/lauren-wolfe-new-york-times-biden-tweet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/01/24/lauren-wolfe... 2. https://youtu.be/uL-e6XfWppo?t=293 https://youtu.be/uL-e6XfWppo?t=293 3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/25/lauren-wolfe-tweet-nyt-dismissal/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/25/lauren-wo...
  - ctrlp 6y ago
    Not sure Wolfe would qualify as one of the "good" editors fired at the times. Maybe OP is referring to Bennet? I'm any case the power dynamics at the NYT have been shifting to the detriment of solid reporting for a while now. It's sad but the NYT and WaPo are now the Fox News of the repressive left and state power (so long as it's Blue).
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      James Bennet edited the opinion section, so his resignation wouldn’t have anything to do with the shift away from “solid reporting” you’re talking about.
      - ctrlp 6y ago
        Most of the times reads like opinion now, if you haven't noticed.
    - xxpor 6y ago
      The NYT and WaPo editorials and analysis are the most milquetoast center-left opinions you can find. That's always been their position. The difference is now they're coming after Silicon Valley, because they realize they've lost their attention and advertising monopoly. It's all very predicable and boring. It's the same deal with Balaji. The only reason he cares is because the reporting might hurt a company he's invested in. Follow the money. Always follow the money.
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    That just seems like the average English-language US Twitter thread. (Well, average non-abusive such thread.)
- eusvcitz 6y ago
  Remember this? https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1235802419734269952 https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1235802419734269952
  - rayiner 6y ago
    > MSNBC’s Brian Williams reads a tweet: "Bloomberg spent $500 million on ads. U.S. Population, 327 million. He could have given each American $1 million" > NYT Editorial Board Member Mara Gay: “It’s an incredible way of putting it. It’s true. It’s disturbing”
    - erichocean 6y ago
      > “It’s an incredible way of putting it, it’s true...it’s disturbing” Where's the lie though? Incredible indeed…
      - rayiner 6y ago
        Down-voters missing the joke and precise use of “incredible.”
    - tptacek 6y ago
      You're a smart dude. You know that reporters writing NYT features don't report to the editorial board. Plenty of people that deeply respect NYT reporting (and I'm a WaPo person) think NYT editorial is, like that of the WSJ, a total clownfire.
      - rayiner 6y ago
        The didn’t imply anything about the NYT’s reporting in that post. I was just adding a funny quote regarding a hilariously innumerate take.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  I think it is indeed becoming an echo chamber. Everyone is holing up in their own little everyone-else-is-wrong silos including MSM, it's not just the fringe. There are a group of academics across the aisle from one another trying to fight it but I think it's a battle they can't win. Talks at universities cancelled because someone, who wouldn't even be going is "triggered", stories like this from the NYT, deplatforming people forever, etc.
spamizbad 6y ago
I laughed because that “wide range of views” is actually quite narrow in the grand scheme of things. Wide by the standards of the intelligentsia perhaps.
- pas 6y ago
  Could you detail this a bit for those who are not in the know? Maybe could you give examples of a few missing views/viewpoints? Thanks!
  - spamizbad 6y ago
    One thing left out of these discussions tends to be the views of just about every non-college Republican or independent. It’s just mainstream liberalism against elite Republican views, thirdway-ism, or some niche contrarian take from the right or the left. If you’re going to bring in contrarian views on things like race, that some view as racist - okay. But I would recommend expanding that to bring in views that are also contrarian but perhaps not so controversial but nevertheless worth discussing. My impression is SSC readers get caught up in a sort of intellectual exoticism rather than any rigorous analysis of what the landscape actually looks like; the non-conventional but ultimately boring takes are left unexamined.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      > One thing left out of these discussions tends to be the views of just about every non-college Republican or independent. It’s just mainstream liberalism against elite Republican views, thirdway-ism, or some niche contrarian take from the right or the left. Not just non-college Republicans, huge swaths of non-liberal Democrats (mostly people of color). Are the majority of Black Democrats, who believe you can’t be a moral person without believing in God, represented? Are there any Muslims who hold social positions their religion tells them to be true? When it comes to immigrants, anyone who actually believes what your typical Indian or Bangladeshi believes? (Or is it just the elite who deliberately left those countries and assimilated into white American culture? And even among the latter, is it the first generation parents hoping their kids will integrate to a degree, but hold on to traditional social morals, or is it the second generation ones who picked up western social morals despite their parents’ efforts?)
WaltPurvis 6y ago
>it doesn’t link to the NYT magazine article on rationalist retreats from a few years ago I want to read that, but Google failed me. Do you have a link or a clue to help me find a link?
- reducesuffering 6y ago
  I believe they're thinking of https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-code.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-co...
  - WaltPurvis 6y ago
    Thank you!
  - setgree 6y ago
    This was indeed it! Much more interesting read IMO. I remember being struck in it, though, by the reference to Eliezer Yudkowsky as being known for espousing polyamory, As if to tell readers, watch out, sexually deviant person here! A lot of articles about rationalists seem designed to reinforce Scott’s broader point about the distance between the blue and grey tribes

bmmayer1 6y ago

> Where were the editors on this? Maybe the good editors at the NYT are too busy getting fired.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
arminiusreturns 6y ago
For those of you unaware, let me summarize what this is referencing. Recently a NYT freelance editor Lauren Wolfe, who mostly worked on the "live updates" team, was fired, but this firing caused some controversy due to the timing of some tweets and who knows what else. It's not completley clear why she was fired, as the NYT responded to requests for comment by the WaPo by saying [1]: "There’s a lot of inaccurate information circulating on Twitter. For privacy reasons we don’t get into the details of personnel matters but we can say that we didn’t end someone’s employment over a single tweet. Out of respect for the individuals involved we don’t plan to comment further. (To clarify something that has been incorrectly reported, Ms. Wolfe was not a full-time employee, nor did she have a contract.)" Quite a few leftists initially blamed the NYT for caving to conservative pressure, apparently by making the claim there was a relation between the tweets she made and her firing, which she confirmed in another WaPo interview [3] by saying "...that an editor at the paper contacted her after she published the “chills” tweet. The Times couldn’t be associated with such a tweet, said the manager, and that her gig with the paper would be ending." Some leftists also seemed to blame Glenn Greenwald for his involvement in the matter; a single tweet in response to hers that he later called "light mockery"[2]. Glenn Greenwald, previously strongly supported by the left and many others, has recently been victim to a series of character assassination attempts due to his unconformity to the mainstream leftists viewpoints, so it rather seems the twitter left mob just used him as a lightening rod without having all the facts in this case. The tweets in question? LW: "The pettiness of the Trump admin not sending a military plane to bring him to D.C. as is tradition is mortifying. Childish She later deleted the above tweet when it was revealed that Biden and his team chose to take his own plane, despite many mainstream media talking heads parroting the same narrative. LW: “Biden landing at Joint Base Andrews now. I have chills” GG: "If you're in the national press and will be on TV at any point today and being to feel the need to weep joyously, just hold it in until you find a private place. Nobody is expecting any adversarial coverage over the next 4 years, but it's just a matter of personal dignity." 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/01/24/lauren-wolfe-new-york-times-biden-tweet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/01/24/lauren-wolfe... 2. https://youtu.be/uL-e6XfWppo?t=293 https://youtu.be/uL-e6XfWppo?t=293 3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/25/lauren-wolfe-tweet-nyt-dismissal/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/25/lauren-wo...
- ctrlp 6y ago
  Not sure Wolfe would qualify as one of the "good" editors fired at the times. Maybe OP is referring to Bennet? I'm any case the power dynamics at the NYT have been shifting to the detriment of solid reporting for a while now. It's sad but the NYT and WaPo are now the Fox News of the repressive left and state power (so long as it's Blue).
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    James Bennet edited the opinion section, so his resignation wouldn’t have anything to do with the shift away from “solid reporting” you’re talking about.
    - ctrlp 6y ago
      Most of the times reads like opinion now, if you haven't noticed.
  - xxpor 6y ago
    The NYT and WaPo editorials and analysis are the most milquetoast center-left opinions you can find. That's always been their position. The difference is now they're coming after Silicon Valley, because they realize they've lost their attention and advertising monopoly. It's all very predicable and boring. It's the same deal with Balaji. The only reason he cares is because the reporting might hurt a company he's invested in. Follow the money. Always follow the money.
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  That just seems like the average English-language US Twitter thread. (Well, average non-abusive such thread.)
eusvcitz 6y ago
Remember this? https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1235802419734269952 https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1235802419734269952
- rayiner 6y ago
  > MSNBC’s Brian Williams reads a tweet: "Bloomberg spent $500 million on ads. U.S. Population, 327 million. He could have given each American $1 million" > NYT Editorial Board Member Mara Gay: “It’s an incredible way of putting it. It’s true. It’s disturbing”
  - erichocean 6y ago
    > “It’s an incredible way of putting it, it’s true...it’s disturbing” Where's the lie though? Incredible indeed…
    - rayiner 6y ago
      Down-voters missing the joke and precise use of “incredible.”
  - tptacek 6y ago
    You're a smart dude. You know that reporters writing NYT features don't report to the editorial board. Plenty of people that deeply respect NYT reporting (and I'm a WaPo person) think NYT editorial is, like that of the WSJ, a total clownfire.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      The didn’t imply anything about the NYT’s reporting in that post. I was just adding a funny quote regarding a hilariously innumerate take.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I think it is indeed becoming an echo chamber. Everyone is holing up in their own little everyone-else-is-wrong silos including MSM, it's not just the fringe. There are a group of academics across the aisle from one another trying to fight it but I think it's a battle they can't win. Talks at universities cancelled because someone, who wouldn't even be going is "triggered", stories like this from the NYT, deplatforming people forever, etc.

spamizbad 6y ago

I laughed because that “wide range of views” is actually quite narrow in the grand scheme of things. Wide by the standards of the intelligentsia perhaps.

pas 6y ago
Could you detail this a bit for those who are not in the know? Maybe could you give examples of a few missing views/viewpoints? Thanks!
- spamizbad 6y ago
  One thing left out of these discussions tends to be the views of just about every non-college Republican or independent. It’s just mainstream liberalism against elite Republican views, thirdway-ism, or some niche contrarian take from the right or the left. If you’re going to bring in contrarian views on things like race, that some view as racist - okay. But I would recommend expanding that to bring in views that are also contrarian but perhaps not so controversial but nevertheless worth discussing. My impression is SSC readers get caught up in a sort of intellectual exoticism rather than any rigorous analysis of what the landscape actually looks like; the non-conventional but ultimately boring takes are left unexamined.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    > One thing left out of these discussions tends to be the views of just about every non-college Republican or independent. It’s just mainstream liberalism against elite Republican views, thirdway-ism, or some niche contrarian take from the right or the left. Not just non-college Republicans, huge swaths of non-liberal Democrats (mostly people of color). Are the majority of Black Democrats, who believe you can’t be a moral person without believing in God, represented? Are there any Muslims who hold social positions their religion tells them to be true? When it comes to immigrants, anyone who actually believes what your typical Indian or Bangladeshi believes? (Or is it just the elite who deliberately left those countries and assimilated into white American culture? And even among the latter, is it the first generation parents hoping their kids will integrate to a degree, but hold on to traditional social morals, or is it the second generation ones who picked up western social morals despite their parents’ efforts?)

WaltPurvis 6y ago

>it doesn’t link to the NYT magazine article on rationalist retreats from a few years ago I want to read that, but Google failed me. Do you have a link or a clue to help me find a link?

reducesuffering 6y ago
I believe they're thinking of https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-code.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-co...
- WaltPurvis 6y ago
  Thank you!
- setgree 6y ago
  This was indeed it! Much more interesting read IMO. I remember being struck in it, though, by the reference to Eliezer Yudkowsky as being known for espousing polyamory, As if to tell readers, watch out, sexually deviant person here! A lot of articles about rationalists seem designed to reinforce Scott’s broader point about the distance between the blue and grey tribes