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Next entity for the killed-by-google-graveyard? Joke aside, seems that kotlin is a niche player and will remain a better Java until something like Rust eventua

Next entity for the killed-by-google-graveyard? Joke aside, seems that kotlin is a niche player and will remain a better Java until something like Rust eventually takes over the enterprise market.

wffurr 6y ago
Android development is a huge “niche”. I don’t see how Rust displaces Java or Kotlin. It’s very different with different use cases that it’s suited for and different strengths and weaknesses. Kotlin also seamlessly inter operates with Java, which is a big deal for any company with a large existing Java code base, which are legion.
- jswizzy 6y ago
  Yep and with Kotlin and Swift having 90% of the same paradigms it's easy to switch between the two without having to think in contrasting paradigms.
ta988 6y ago
Kotlin is slowly getting in the industry as well. But really comparing Rust and Java (meaning the JVM, its languages and all the libs and tools) is not fair. They have different targets and respond to different needs. Of course, like everything, there are problems where their capabilities overlap and they would both work really well. But I have trouble believing this "new language that will rule them all" idea. We didn't really see that happen anywhere (or maybe we did and I'm missing an example of that).
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Kotlin is meaningless outside Android development. Kotlin/Native is never going to be a match for other native languages, as its reboot by choosing an incompatible memory model with JVM languages has proven. While on the JVM, just like trying to replace C on UNIX, JavaScript on the browser, it is just another guest language dancing to Java tunes. Just another one to share seats between Beanshell, jTCL, Jython, JRuby, Scala, Clojure, Groovy, Ceylon, XTend, without big daddys' help to force adoption down developer throats like they are doing on Android.
The_rationalist 6y ago
Kotlin on the server is growing in popularity and ecosystem, just a week ago Netflix open sourced a new Graphql client. Also Pivotal (the company behind Spring boot) is investing a lot in Kotlin. To have tried many language on the server, Kotlin is a gift and has made me as a developer both more productive and happier! It truly is a state of the art language in ergonomics that everybody should give a try
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Almost 10 years ago Pivotal was doing exactly the same with Groovy, Scala and Clojure, where are Spring Groovy/Scala/Clojure 10 years later?
  - ta988 6y ago
    I don't think any of these language efforts went anywhere near the support Kotlin now has in Spring. Doesn't mean it will not fail, but it is already further than any other..
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Sure they were, Pivotal was screaming across all winds on Java conferences, just like they are doing nowadays with Kotlin. They are just betting on a new horse after the old ones failed to win the races they were set off to. I kept being downvoted when I talked about S4TF going nowhere and the news today prove many of us were right about it. Similarly I will give about 5 years time for Kotlin fashion to die everywhere outside Android, this assuming that Fuchsia won't eventually become the new darling. It is quite telling that Google's own business units like Ad Words and Google Pay rather go with Flutter, and write blog posts about it, instead of adopting KMM. Jetpack Composer is a political answer to Flutter.
    - johnnycerberus 6y ago
      I remember many years ago when Pivotal's website was featuring a module for Spring Scala saying something about concise API and other functional buzzwords. The same for Groovy, earlier.
goto11 6y ago
Rust will never take over the enterprise market from Java or Kotlin. It is a language for completely different use cases. I it more of a competitor to C++.

Next entity for the killed-by-google-graveyard? Joke aside, seems that kotlin is a niche player and will remain a better Java until something like Rust eventually takes over the enterprise market.

wffurr 6y ago

Android development is a huge “niche”. I don’t see how Rust displaces Java or Kotlin. It’s very different with different use cases that it’s suited for and different strengths and weaknesses. Kotlin also seamlessly inter operates with Java, which is a big deal for any company with a large existing Java code base, which are legion.

jswizzy 6y ago
Yep and with Kotlin and Swift having 90% of the same paradigms it's easy to switch between the two without having to think in contrasting paradigms.

ta988 6y ago

Kotlin is slowly getting in the industry as well. But really comparing Rust and Java (meaning the JVM, its languages and all the libs and tools) is not fair. They have different targets and respond to different needs. Of course, like everything, there are problems where their capabilities overlap and they would both work really well. But I have trouble believing this "new language that will rule them all" idea. We didn't really see that happen anywhere (or maybe we did and I'm missing an example of that).

pjmlp 6y ago
Kotlin is meaningless outside Android development. Kotlin/Native is never going to be a match for other native languages, as its reboot by choosing an incompatible memory model with JVM languages has proven. While on the JVM, just like trying to replace C on UNIX, JavaScript on the browser, it is just another guest language dancing to Java tunes. Just another one to share seats between Beanshell, jTCL, Jython, JRuby, Scala, Clojure, Groovy, Ceylon, XTend, without big daddys' help to force adoption down developer throats like they are doing on Android.

The_rationalist 6y ago

Kotlin on the server is growing in popularity and ecosystem, just a week ago Netflix open sourced a new Graphql client. Also Pivotal (the company behind Spring boot) is investing a lot in Kotlin. To have tried many language on the server, Kotlin is a gift and has made me as a developer both more productive and happier! It truly is a state of the art language in ergonomics that everybody should give a try

pjmlp 6y ago
Almost 10 years ago Pivotal was doing exactly the same with Groovy, Scala and Clojure, where are Spring Groovy/Scala/Clojure 10 years later?
- ta988 6y ago
  I don't think any of these language efforts went anywhere near the support Kotlin now has in Spring. Doesn't mean it will not fail, but it is already further than any other..
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Sure they were, Pivotal was screaming across all winds on Java conferences, just like they are doing nowadays with Kotlin. They are just betting on a new horse after the old ones failed to win the races they were set off to. I kept being downvoted when I talked about S4TF going nowhere and the news today prove many of us were right about it. Similarly I will give about 5 years time for Kotlin fashion to die everywhere outside Android, this assuming that Fuchsia won't eventually become the new darling. It is quite telling that Google's own business units like Ad Words and Google Pay rather go with Flutter, and write blog posts about it, instead of adopting KMM. Jetpack Composer is a political answer to Flutter.
  - johnnycerberus 6y ago
    I remember many years ago when Pivotal's website was featuring a module for Spring Scala saying something about concise API and other functional buzzwords. The same for Groovy, earlier.

goto11 6y ago

Rust will never take over the enterprise market from Java or Kotlin. It is a language for completely different use cases. I it more of a competitor to C++.