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This is not mutually exclusive > were they exploiting open source by using it Yes, they were profiting from labour they didn't pay for > or were they getting

This is not mutually exclusive > were they exploiting open source by using it Yes, they were profiting from labour they didn't pay for > or were they getting more people to contribute to open source Yes they promote open source so they can get more work done for free > You know the point of contributing to open source is it make it open source, right? That's the idea, but reality is that this is a loophole where big corporations save on R&D and get work done without having to pay salaries and taxes. In many countries you cannot hire someone without paying them even if they agree to work for free and the same should apply to software. > Do you exploit open source by using Linux instead of paying for Windows? The problem is that it is difficult to reward all the people who contributed to Linux and that needs to change. > Do you exploit open source by celebrating open source developers? That makes little sense. If you embrace open source you are actually helping big companies getting free labour.

sokoloff 6y ago
> In many countries you cannot hire someone without paying them even if they agree to work for free and the same should apply to software. In those countries, am I permitted to shovel my neighbor’s sidewalk or mow their lawn? Can I help a friend paint a room or change a tire? Am I permitted to write a poem and share it for free? Can I publish scientific findings that I might have created? > If you embrace open source you are actually helping big companies getting free labour. I see it as “Yes, and:” We are helping all humans avoid the tedium and drudgery of solving now-pointless problems because they have already been solved, avoid introducing novel security bugs, and overall to help us collectively stand on the shoulders of giants rather than on the toes. That does help large companies avoid creating a bunch of tedious, pointless, repetitive work which humans would have to forfeit large chunks of their lives solving. That sounds like a feature rather than a bug to me. It also helps small companies afford to offer tech-based solutions and to better utilize the constrained pool of “people who are good at programming”.
- varispeed 6y ago
  You are comparing apples to oranges. Your neighbour will not make billions of off your shoveled sidewalk and you won't have to spend years perfecting the art of shoveling just to perform that task over multiple months.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Is it illegal for them to hire me (or ask me and direct me) to shovel their sidewalk for free or not? Does the legality depend on their making billions? I think you’re crossing legal and moral arguments. I might decide to shovel my fixed-income pensioner neighbor’s sidewalk for free while deciding to not shovel Larry Ellison’s sidewalk on the other side of my property even if he asked nicely (which I doubt he would). That’s a moral/ethical choice on my part, but the law everywhere probably allows that transaction. If you don’t want to contribute your time, skills, and attention to open-source, I don’t see anyone suggesting that you be forced to do so. You are the one claiming that there’s something that ought to be illegal about it, with which I disagree.
    - varispeed 6y ago
      In my country it is illegal, however it wouldn't be enforced as this is a minor thing, but if you were a registered company and tried to get someone to clean the pavement around your office for free, then you could get into a serious problem. Even if the person agreed to do it for free, they could then report your for not paying a minimum wage.

sokoloff 6y ago

> In many countries you cannot hire someone without paying them even if they agree to work for free and the same should apply to software. In those countries, am I permitted to shovel my neighbor’s sidewalk or mow their lawn? Can I help a friend paint a room or change a tire? Am I permitted to write a poem and share it for free? Can I publish scientific findings that I might have created? > If you embrace open source you are actually helping big companies getting free labour. I see it as “Yes, and:” We are helping all humans avoid the tedium and drudgery of solving now-pointless problems because they have already been solved, avoid introducing novel security bugs, and overall to help us collectively stand on the shoulders of giants rather than on the toes. That does help large companies avoid creating a bunch of tedious, pointless, repetitive work which humans would have to forfeit large chunks of their lives solving. That sounds like a feature rather than a bug to me. It also helps small companies afford to offer tech-based solutions and to better utilize the constrained pool of “people who are good at programming”.

varispeed 6y ago
You are comparing apples to oranges. Your neighbour will not make billions of off your shoveled sidewalk and you won't have to spend years perfecting the art of shoveling just to perform that task over multiple months.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Is it illegal for them to hire me (or ask me and direct me) to shovel their sidewalk for free or not? Does the legality depend on their making billions? I think you’re crossing legal and moral arguments. I might decide to shovel my fixed-income pensioner neighbor’s sidewalk for free while deciding to not shovel Larry Ellison’s sidewalk on the other side of my property even if he asked nicely (which I doubt he would). That’s a moral/ethical choice on my part, but the law everywhere probably allows that transaction. If you don’t want to contribute your time, skills, and attention to open-source, I don’t see anyone suggesting that you be forced to do so. You are the one claiming that there’s something that ought to be illegal about it, with which I disagree.
  - varispeed 6y ago
    In my country it is illegal, however it wouldn't be enforced as this is a minor thing, but if you were a registered company and tried to get someone to clean the pavement around your office for free, then you could get into a serious problem. Even if the person agreed to do it for free, they could then report your for not paying a minimum wage.