4 ms·

1) Don't. Longer version: 1) Don't be the last sucker.

by wiredfool 6y ago

crecker 6y ago
Hey, would you please expand your thesis? So everyone here can benefit from your opinion! Thanks in advance.
- qeternity 6y ago
  Not sure what OP is referring to but my two cents: anyone who feels like FOMO'ing crypto should spend the next couple hours reading about Tether, and then wait a week and decide if/how much you're willing to risk.
  - ohazi 6y ago
    patio11 has written some amusing opinions about tether: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/10/28/tether-and-bitfinex/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/10/28/tether-and-bitfinex/ https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1338667725980221440 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1338667725980221440
    - capableweb 6y ago
      I've read a lot of patio11's writings and agree with much of it, and I'm not saying he's wrong here about Bitcoin, Bitfinex and Tether, I mostly agree with it. But, it's worth knowing about possible biases everyone can posses. In this case, patio11 works for Stripe which is in a very strong position in the traditional currencies world ,which used to have Bitcoin support but ended it in 2018. So there might be some bias against Bitcoin there, but maybe not. Again, not saying they are wrong in the article linked, just to keep possible biases in mind when reading it. Same goes for reading pro-Bitcoin articles where the authors might be holding Bitcoin themselves. Useful to keep in mind. Edit: Just to showcase what I mean, the linked article basically starts off with "The dominant use case for cryptocurrency is speculation" which shows that there is indeed plenty of biases scattered around the article. Not to say it's all false, but there is biases present.
      - ohazi 6y ago
        Yeah, I agree. I don't have any horses in this race (anymore), and I don't really have a strong opinion on whether I think he's likely right or wrong... I just find his writing on the topic amusing.
  - dustymcp 6y ago
    Or atleast just not buy the All time high that would be sensible investment advise.
    - Ekaros 6y ago
      Specially when nothing indicates that cyclical nature has ended. It will come down again. So buying next up is less stupid way to get in...
  - wtf_is_up 6y ago
    Tether FUD cycle already ended for this bullrun.
capableweb 6y ago
> Don't be the last sucker Any native English speakers who can translate this idiom? I always thought of this idiom as the "last bagholder" in ponzi schemes, rigged pump+dump stocks and alike, but would be weird to apply that to Bitcoin here so not sure if I understand it correctly.
- Ekaros 6y ago
  If you take Bitcoin as speculative asset and nothing else it's perfectly logical advice. Entirely depends on viewpoint. There is likely still some money to be made from trading it. But some of us believe that it will end one day. And some people are the last ones who paid for it.
  - crecker 6y ago
    I do totally agree. In my point of view, Bitcoin was intended to be a currency, not a tool to invest with. It's important to remind that to all the newbies that see Bitcoin as a "magic technology."
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  The future of Bitcoin is still up in the air. In 10 years, maybe it goes to $0 or maybe it goes to $100k. People who say things like this assume that Bitcoin is going to $0 at some point.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  > I always thought of this idiom as the "last bagholder" in ponzi schemes, rigged pump+dump stocks and alike, but would be weird to apply that to Bitcoin here so not sure if I understand it correctly. That is the correct understanding. Because Bitcoin has no inherent value, the only way to profit from it is to sell it to someone else. But if you're the "last sucker", then you are going to sell it to? If there's no one next, you have a bunch of bits that aren't useful for anything. Bitcoin has (so far?) failed as a payment system, as a currency, as a reserve currency, a remittance channel, a timestamping service, a settlement layer, a bank for the "unbanked", a cypherpunk liberator, a money laundering tool, a drugs-by-mail tool, a unit of accounting, a store of value, and as a "disruptive" fintech technology. So if you purchase it, what exactly are you expecting to achieve by that ownership, except to sell it to someone else in the future? When I think of crypto/Bitcoin, I am reminded of Warren Buffett's view on gold: > Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce – gold’s price as I write this – its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A. > Let’s now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world’s most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B? […] > A century from now the 400 million acres of farmland will have produced staggering amounts of corn, wheat, cotton, and other crops – and will continue to produce that valuable bounty, whatever the currency may be. Exxon Mobil will probably have delivered trillions of dollars in dividends to its owners and will also hold assets worth many more trillions (and, remember, you get 16 Exxons). The 170,000 tons of gold will be unchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything. You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond. * https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf
sprash 6y ago
Bad advise. There are only two mistakes you can make with Bitcoins: 1. Selling 2. Not buying Jokes aside. Simply treat it as highly leveraged investment. It makes sense to have those in your portfolio if you know what you are doing.
raister 6y ago
If you are playing poker and you cannot find the sucker in the table, then YOU are it.

1) Don't. Longer version: 1) Don't be the last sucker.

crecker 6y ago

Hey, would you please expand your thesis? So everyone here can benefit from your opinion! Thanks in advance.

qeternity 6y ago
Not sure what OP is referring to but my two cents: anyone who feels like FOMO'ing crypto should spend the next couple hours reading about Tether, and then wait a week and decide if/how much you're willing to risk.
- ohazi 6y ago
  patio11 has written some amusing opinions about tether: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/10/28/tether-and-bitfinex/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2019/10/28/tether-and-bitfinex/ https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1338667725980221440 https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1338667725980221440
  - capableweb 6y ago
    I've read a lot of patio11's writings and agree with much of it, and I'm not saying he's wrong here about Bitcoin, Bitfinex and Tether, I mostly agree with it. But, it's worth knowing about possible biases everyone can posses. In this case, patio11 works for Stripe which is in a very strong position in the traditional currencies world ,which used to have Bitcoin support but ended it in 2018. So there might be some bias against Bitcoin there, but maybe not. Again, not saying they are wrong in the article linked, just to keep possible biases in mind when reading it. Same goes for reading pro-Bitcoin articles where the authors might be holding Bitcoin themselves. Useful to keep in mind. Edit: Just to showcase what I mean, the linked article basically starts off with "The dominant use case for cryptocurrency is speculation" which shows that there is indeed plenty of biases scattered around the article. Not to say it's all false, but there is biases present.
    - ohazi 6y ago
      Yeah, I agree. I don't have any horses in this race (anymore), and I don't really have a strong opinion on whether I think he's likely right or wrong... I just find his writing on the topic amusing.
- dustymcp 6y ago
  Or atleast just not buy the All time high that would be sensible investment advise.
  - Ekaros 6y ago
    Specially when nothing indicates that cyclical nature has ended. It will come down again. So buying next up is less stupid way to get in...
- wtf_is_up 6y ago
  Tether FUD cycle already ended for this bullrun.

capableweb 6y ago

> Don't be the last sucker Any native English speakers who can translate this idiom? I always thought of this idiom as the "last bagholder" in ponzi schemes, rigged pump+dump stocks and alike, but would be weird to apply that to Bitcoin here so not sure if I understand it correctly.

Ekaros 6y ago
If you take Bitcoin as speculative asset and nothing else it's perfectly logical advice. Entirely depends on viewpoint. There is likely still some money to be made from trading it. But some of us believe that it will end one day. And some people are the last ones who paid for it.
- crecker 6y ago
  I do totally agree. In my point of view, Bitcoin was intended to be a currency, not a tool to invest with. It's important to remind that to all the newbies that see Bitcoin as a "magic technology."
ZephyrBlu 6y ago
The future of Bitcoin is still up in the air. In 10 years, maybe it goes to $0 or maybe it goes to $100k. People who say things like this assume that Bitcoin is going to $0 at some point.
throw0101a 6y ago
> I always thought of this idiom as the "last bagholder" in ponzi schemes, rigged pump+dump stocks and alike, but would be weird to apply that to Bitcoin here so not sure if I understand it correctly. That is the correct understanding. Because Bitcoin has no inherent value, the only way to profit from it is to sell it to someone else. But if you're the "last sucker", then you are going to sell it to? If there's no one next, you have a bunch of bits that aren't useful for anything. Bitcoin has (so far?) failed as a payment system, as a currency, as a reserve currency, a remittance channel, a timestamping service, a settlement layer, a bank for the "unbanked", a cypherpunk liberator, a money laundering tool, a drugs-by-mail tool, a unit of accounting, a store of value, and as a "disruptive" fintech technology. So if you purchase it, what exactly are you expecting to achieve by that ownership, except to sell it to someone else in the future? When I think of crypto/Bitcoin, I am reminded of Warren Buffett's view on gold: > Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce – gold’s price as I write this – its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A. > Let’s now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world’s most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B? […] > A century from now the 400 million acres of farmland will have produced staggering amounts of corn, wheat, cotton, and other crops – and will continue to produce that valuable bounty, whatever the currency may be. Exxon Mobil will probably have delivered trillions of dollars in dividends to its owners and will also hold assets worth many more trillions (and, remember, you get 16 Exxons). The 170,000 tons of gold will be unchanged in size and still incapable of producing anything. You can fondle the cube, but it will not respond. * https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf

sprash 6y ago

Bad advise. There are only two mistakes you can make with Bitcoins: 1. Selling 2. Not buying Jokes aside. Simply treat it as highly leveraged investment. It makes sense to have those in your portfolio if you know what you are doing.

raister 6y ago

If you are playing poker and you cannot find the sucker in the table, then YOU are it.