4 ms·

Barring GUI libraries that depend on WinForms/WPF, surely there are very few libraries now only available for dotnet framework? I work at a consultancy for ent

Barring GUI libraries that depend on WinForms/WPF, surely there are very few libraries now only available for dotnet framework? I work at a consultancy for enterprise-size orgs, and Windows servers are indeed still frequently used - but almost exclusively on-prem, and I've never even once come across Windows containers being used. Seems the shift to the cloud, and Microsoft's shift to OSS and Linux love, has tamed even the most fervent of Microsoft shops. 10 years ago you'd be laughed at if you suggested anything other than Windows, but now it's the default for anything in the cloud.

pjmlp 6y ago
Sitecore, Sharepoint, Dynamics, EF 6 and WCF in-house frameworks, and plenty of third party solutions on the Windows ecosystem. All the cloud based deployments I have done, other than a couple of serverless microservices on AWS Lambda, have been done on Windows and that won't change for the foreseeable future in what concerns the kind of customers I work with. In fact, it is a bit ironic that instead of getting advises from cloud experts, I am the one with my lower skill set in the domain, to have to explain to them what is to be expected for production delivery.
- legulere 6y ago
  EF 6 runs on net core: https://www.nuget.org/packages/EntityFramework/ https://www.nuget.org/packages/EntityFramework/
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Partially, not everything that is part of EF 6, specially VS designers. Don't take marketing for the full use in production environments. Also we can keep doing this game, there are plenty of enterprise tools I can list. .NET Core is the Python 3 of .NET world.
    - GordonS 6y ago
      I've used EF Core in production for years, and seen it used in production by numerous teams, and it's been at least at stable as EF6 was, while being a lot more performant. You are correct that you don't get a VS designer, but I've personally always favoured a code-first approach anyway, so this never affected me. > .NET Core is the Python 3 of .NET world. I see where you are coming from, but I don't think I agree. There is still a large segment of Python 2 devs, and for many, there isn't a particularly compelling reason to move to Python 3. Dotnet Core is different, in that there are very compelling reasons to move: cross-platform (massively important in our new cloudy world), performance, and of course ongoing support. There are for sure a small hardcore of sad dotnet devs stuck on Framework because of some legacy libraries, but I reckon the majority made the move to Core a long time ago.
      - foepys 6y ago
        The WinForms designer for .NET Core in Visual Studio is still broken and doesn't work with third-party controls. The whole WinForms team at Microsoft is afaik less than 5 developers strong who are also working on other things on the side. If you look into the bug tracker you will see that those <5 devs are not experienced enough for the monumental task of porting WinForms. There are a few volunteers that keep submitting PRs and giving insights into .NET Framework's WinForms to keep the devs from accidentally knocking things over. The .NET Framework version is working fine and has been for years. That's why my company won't switch in the near future. Marketing and reality are just too far apart.
        GordonS 6y ago
        > The WinForms designer for .NET Core in Visual Studio is still broken That's tooling, not Dotnet Core itself. As an aside, I think there is even a WinForms GUI editor in Jetbrains Rider now. > Marketing and reality are just too far apart I mean, that's your opinion, but there are millions of Dotnet Core devs for whom the reality is as wonderful as promised. If you still have to work with legacy libraries or maybe WinForms, then of course I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think it's fair to tar the whole of Dotnet Core based on some limited failings that affect only a minority.
- GordonS 6y ago
  Is there a compelling reason to use EF6 instead of EF Core? I personally haven't used EF, or even seen other teams using it, for years now. Similarly with WCF. It's something I used to use a decade ago (though I admit I was never a fan), but haven't seen it used in eons.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    99% of enterprise projects I deal with are brownfield projects, unless it there is a business value in a code rewrite, there is no compelling value to spend money rewriting code from scratch for newer stacks, specially if they require buying third party tools to replace existing workflows, like it happens with the broken EF 6 designer on core (and non existent one for EF Core).

pjmlp 6y ago

Sitecore, Sharepoint, Dynamics, EF 6 and WCF in-house frameworks, and plenty of third party solutions on the Windows ecosystem. All the cloud based deployments I have done, other than a couple of serverless microservices on AWS Lambda, have been done on Windows and that won't change for the foreseeable future in what concerns the kind of customers I work with. In fact, it is a bit ironic that instead of getting advises from cloud experts, I am the one with my lower skill set in the domain, to have to explain to them what is to be expected for production delivery.

legulere 6y ago
EF 6 runs on net core: https://www.nuget.org/packages/EntityFramework/ https://www.nuget.org/packages/EntityFramework/
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Partially, not everything that is part of EF 6, specially VS designers. Don't take marketing for the full use in production environments. Also we can keep doing this game, there are plenty of enterprise tools I can list. .NET Core is the Python 3 of .NET world.
  - GordonS 6y ago
    I've used EF Core in production for years, and seen it used in production by numerous teams, and it's been at least at stable as EF6 was, while being a lot more performant. You are correct that you don't get a VS designer, but I've personally always favoured a code-first approach anyway, so this never affected me. > .NET Core is the Python 3 of .NET world. I see where you are coming from, but I don't think I agree. There is still a large segment of Python 2 devs, and for many, there isn't a particularly compelling reason to move to Python 3. Dotnet Core is different, in that there are very compelling reasons to move: cross-platform (massively important in our new cloudy world), performance, and of course ongoing support. There are for sure a small hardcore of sad dotnet devs stuck on Framework because of some legacy libraries, but I reckon the majority made the move to Core a long time ago.
    - foepys 6y ago
      The WinForms designer for .NET Core in Visual Studio is still broken and doesn't work with third-party controls. The whole WinForms team at Microsoft is afaik less than 5 developers strong who are also working on other things on the side. If you look into the bug tracker you will see that those <5 devs are not experienced enough for the monumental task of porting WinForms. There are a few volunteers that keep submitting PRs and giving insights into .NET Framework's WinForms to keep the devs from accidentally knocking things over. The .NET Framework version is working fine and has been for years. That's why my company won't switch in the near future. Marketing and reality are just too far apart.
      - GordonS 6y ago
        > The WinForms designer for .NET Core in Visual Studio is still broken That's tooling, not Dotnet Core itself. As an aside, I think there is even a WinForms GUI editor in Jetbrains Rider now. > Marketing and reality are just too far apart I mean, that's your opinion, but there are millions of Dotnet Core devs for whom the reality is as wonderful as promised. If you still have to work with legacy libraries or maybe WinForms, then of course I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think it's fair to tar the whole of Dotnet Core based on some limited failings that affect only a minority.
GordonS 6y ago
Is there a compelling reason to use EF6 instead of EF Core? I personally haven't used EF, or even seen other teams using it, for years now. Similarly with WCF. It's something I used to use a decade ago (though I admit I was never a fan), but haven't seen it used in eons.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  99% of enterprise projects I deal with are brownfield projects, unless it there is a business value in a code rewrite, there is no compelling value to spend money rewriting code from scratch for newer stacks, specially if they require buying third party tools to replace existing workflows, like it happens with the broken EF 6 designer on core (and non existent one for EF Core).