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> you can go through courts and banks to get it back That's something you read on the internet and that people keep repeating without having any understanding

> you can go through courts and banks to get it back That's something you read on the internet and that people keep repeating without having any understanding of. In reality it's quite far from the truth, because most fraudsters don't just steal your money and keep it on their accounts. They use fictional shell companies, they move the money around, they steal identities etc... The money is just not there to be returned. Yes, you can go to the courts, but they are not going to magically give you some new money if there is none to be taken back, or none to be found. This is a very common occurrence. Also courts only even help when there are very large sums involved. In all other cases it still costs more to go to the court than there is money to be saved, so it's a oot point. Oh, and above all, the courts work exactly the same way with crypto, haven't you noticed this? Stealing is illegal and can be dealt with in courts, whether it's USD or BTC, it doesn't matter to the court. So what is the point of mentioning this?? If your fraudster still has their BTC, the court will get them back. Government has also seized a lot of BTC from criminals, so again, it's working exactly as USD in this regard.

LukeShu 6y ago
You've only mentioned courts, but the parent comment also mentioned banks. Sure, if you're going to take someone to court, you need to find them, and everything you say is true. But you often don't need to take someone to court; the bank will handle it. "they are not going to magically give you some new money if there is none to be taken back" I mean, they kinda will. It's not magically new money; it came from somewhere, but as far as the user needs to know it's magic. Especially since there are laws limiting individual liability for stolen identities. Me: "There's been fraud on my card." (to the tune of $1000) Teller: "Are you sure it wasn't a family member or a mistaken purchase?" Me: "Yeah, the charges were in Texas and I haven't been to Texas in years." Teller: "Great. hands me a printout of recent charges and a highlighter Can you highlight all of the unauthorized charges?" Me: "Sure." Teller: "Ok, we'll provisionally credit you the amount back to your account, while your claim gets reviewed; you'll have access to it immediately, but will be liable to pay it back if the claim gets denied. We'll let you know when the claim approval is finalized, which usually takes 2-3 weeks. We'll get you a new card, which should arrive in 2-3 days, if you don't get it by the third day, let us know." Me: "Thanks!"
- zocoi 6y ago
  You’re describing credit card fraud and more often the banks eat up the loss and issue your credit back. They don’t bother investigating further then write off the loss in tax. Wire transfers are usually available to withdraw immediately so it’s really hard to recover. Some wire frauds take months to recover via court system. That’s why real estate wire fraud is popular and more complicated over time. Overall crypto is not as bad as you think.
  - Dma54rhs 6y ago
    In Europe people between themselves and businesses use what you call wire in America. The credit card charge back is very much American concept, I guess the fees pay for that insurance.
    - whoooooo123 6y ago
      Where in Europe do you live? Credit card chargebacks are an extremely well-known and common concept in the UK, and I've hardly ever used personal wire transfer to pay businesses except for auto-recurring transactions like rent, insurance, utility bills.
  - beagle3 6y ago
    Banks rarely eat credit fraud; they more often than not make the merchant eat the fraud instead, in my experience. The merchant usually CAN make the bank eat the losses, nit that requires pre-approving each transaction and higher fees, so many merchants skip it (at least until bitten hard)
  - Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
    > the banks eat up the loss They don't, they pass it on to the merchant. This is why working with credit cards or paypal is a pain for a lot of merchants and that's why you as a user have to sometimes jump through hoops to just verify yourself. Merchants have to do this because they know that they will be paying in case of you getting defrauded.
- Karunamon 6y ago

LukeShu 6y ago

You've only mentioned courts, but the parent comment also mentioned banks. Sure, if you're going to take someone to court, you need to find them, and everything you say is true. But you often don't need to take someone to court; the bank will handle it. "they are not going to magically give you some new money if there is none to be taken back" I mean, they kinda will. It's not magically new money; it came from somewhere, but as far as the user needs to know it's magic. Especially since there are laws limiting individual liability for stolen identities. Me: "There's been fraud on my card." (to the tune of $1000) Teller: "Are you sure it wasn't a family member or a mistaken purchase?" Me: "Yeah, the charges were in Texas and I haven't been to Texas in years." Teller: "Great. hands me a printout of recent charges and a highlighter Can you highlight all of the unauthorized charges?" Me: "Sure." Teller: "Ok, we'll provisionally credit you the amount back to your account, while your claim gets reviewed; you'll have access to it immediately, but will be liable to pay it back if the claim gets denied. We'll let you know when the claim approval is finalized, which usually takes 2-3 weeks. We'll get you a new card, which should arrive in 2-3 days, if you don't get it by the third day, let us know." Me: "Thanks!"

zocoi 6y ago
You’re describing credit card fraud and more often the banks eat up the loss and issue your credit back. They don’t bother investigating further then write off the loss in tax. Wire transfers are usually available to withdraw immediately so it’s really hard to recover. Some wire frauds take months to recover via court system. That’s why real estate wire fraud is popular and more complicated over time. Overall crypto is not as bad as you think.
- Dma54rhs 6y ago
  In Europe people between themselves and businesses use what you call wire in America. The credit card charge back is very much American concept, I guess the fees pay for that insurance.
  - whoooooo123 6y ago
    Where in Europe do you live? Credit card chargebacks are an extremely well-known and common concept in the UK, and I've hardly ever used personal wire transfer to pay businesses except for auto-recurring transactions like rent, insurance, utility bills.
- beagle3 6y ago
  Banks rarely eat credit fraud; they more often than not make the merchant eat the fraud instead, in my experience. The merchant usually CAN make the bank eat the losses, nit that requires pre-approving each transaction and higher fees, so many merchants skip it (at least until bitten hard)
- Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
  > the banks eat up the loss They don't, they pass it on to the merchant. This is why working with credit cards or paypal is a pain for a lot of merchants and that's why you as a user have to sometimes jump through hoops to just verify yourself. Merchants have to do this because they know that they will be paying in case of you getting defrauded.
Karunamon 6y ago