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> I have heard too many stories of injuries and paralysis. There is a saying that every doctor has a graveyard. Chiropractors are no different. I don't requir

> I have heard too many stories of injuries and paralysis. There is a saying that every doctor has a graveyard. Chiropractors are no different. I don't require any evidence, if given practitioner helps me with my problem, while traditional ones can't. It amazes me that people always need someone to blame. How about taking responsibility for your own health and your body well-being?

tomnipotent 6y ago
> Chiropractors are no different. Chiropractors are not doctors, nor hold any other medical-based degree.
- Dolores12 6y ago
  How does it relate to the fact they all do mistakes?
  - xvedejas 6y ago
    The actions that chiropractors use that end up injuring people were not mistakes. They're an intended part of the practice. Since it's not an evidence-based profession, that doesn't matter to them. It's not like someone went around and yanked a thousand spines and made sure nobody was paralyzed before chiropractic became a thing. No, there's not any body of evidence. On the contrary, modern mainstream medicine is based on which interventions tend to help people measurably.
    - Dolores12 6y ago
      What you are saying is the intention of every chiropractor is to make harm, because they know upfront it wont work and will harm. Which is absurd. Action of chiropractor is a mean to correct imbalance in the body. Most of the time it works, sometimes not. I would call it side effect, which any evidence-based pill has also.
      - xvedejas 6y ago
        No, they harm people because of what they don't know and don't understand. Get it.
        Dolores12 6y ago
        >they harm people because of what they don't know and don't understand It is your belief and only yours. Get it.
        jasdine817 6y ago
        It was created by a conman and has very flakey medical basis. I suggest reading up on it.
      - shawnz 6y ago
        The intention of every chiropractor is to conduct chiropractic treatments in exchange for money, not to willfully make harm. The problem is that there is no expectation for a chiropractic treatment to be effective in solving any problem, since chiropractic is not evidence based. However there is evidence to show that there are significant risks of injury to undergoing chiropractic treatments.
    - devlopr 6y ago
      Do you recommend these treatments? Acupuncture, massage, biofeedback therapy, laser therapy, electrical nerve stimulation and other nonsurgical spine treatments
tnel77 6y ago
Feels good to talk down to people. Good on you for showing this person that degrees are stupid and science is a sham.
- whoooooo123 6y ago
  That's not what he said. Chiropractic is a sham because it isn't science; the scientific method fails to show evidence that chiropractic treatments are effective. "If alternative medicine worked it would be called 'medicine'"
  - h0l0cube 6y ago
    Not disagreeing about chiropractors but... > "If alternative medicine worked it would be called 'medicine'" This seems a bit simplistic. There is some scope for exploration of new ideas in medicine, and many ideas may go untested until after they see adoption in the community. They then might go through a double blinded trial (or several) that doesn't reveal any benefit beyond placebo, but even then, it's worth noting that some placebos work better than others, and likely placebos work differently for each individual. So for something like pain, which can be controlled somewhat by psychological intervention, a better placebo could have merit. But also, it could be found that some 'alternative medicines' supported by anecdata become scientifically validated interventions. Not saying that unproven interventions should be thrust upon naive patients, but there are many willing and desperate people who've tried mainstream therapies without success
    - yarcob 6y ago
      > desperate people who've tried mainstream therapies without success It would be wonderful if we could help desperate people without lying about the expected outcome of alternative treatment. I don't think anybody will complain if you say something like "maybe you will find this medidation technique makes it easier to deal with your pain". The problem is when people say "This technique will cure your pain. You only need to give me 5000€. Also, don't bother continuing with chemo, it just interferes with your natural healing powers."
yarcob 6y ago
> I don't require any evidence, if given practitioner helps me with my problem, while traditional ones can't. Let's say you wake up with back pain, and there's nothing obviously wrong with your spine. You can go to a physical therapist, and they will check your spine and muscles, move your body, tell you to do some exercises to improve your posture. There is no clear diagnosis beyond some muscle tension and no immediate relief, and you are disappointed, and when the pain goes away on its own in a few days you think visiting the therapist was pointless. You tell your friends how pointless traditional medicine is. Or you visit a chiropracter. He tells you a very satisfying diagnosis, promises to heal you, and makes a few movements that feel surprising. You are impressed. After a few days the pain is completely gone! You are stoked! This person healed you! You don't need evidence from scientific trials, because you experienced the power of alternative medicine yourself!! You tell all your friends how you were healed by this persons magic hands! Of course, without any treatment at all, the pain would also have gone away after a few days. This is why we need evidence based medicine. (And this of course applies to traditional medicine as well -- just because real doctors went to university doesn't make them immune to this problems. There are plenty of doctors who prescribe inefficient treatments.)
- Chrisoaks 6y ago
  > Of course, without any treatment at all, the pain would also have gone away after a few days. And if you struggle for years with chronic back problems and doctors don't really have an answer except to prescribe addictive painkillers and then you see a chiro and everything is cleared up in a couple days? Telling me that's a coincidence is just gaslighting. Sorry, I have no clue what confluence of political/cultural forces have led to the inability of science to figure out how/why this stuff works. Maybe in another 40 years. Good luck!
  - vharuck 6y ago
    "Do you know what they call 'alternative medicine' that's been proved to work? Medicine." - Tim Minchin
  - yarcob 6y ago
    Scientific studies have shown that the placebo effect is very real. You may think that a placebo could never help with your back pain, but I see no reason why a random person on the internet should be immune to the placebo effect.

tomnipotent 6y ago

> Chiropractors are no different. Chiropractors are not doctors, nor hold any other medical-based degree.

Dolores12 6y ago
How does it relate to the fact they all do mistakes?
- xvedejas 6y ago
  The actions that chiropractors use that end up injuring people were not mistakes. They're an intended part of the practice. Since it's not an evidence-based profession, that doesn't matter to them. It's not like someone went around and yanked a thousand spines and made sure nobody was paralyzed before chiropractic became a thing. No, there's not any body of evidence. On the contrary, modern mainstream medicine is based on which interventions tend to help people measurably.
  - Dolores12 6y ago
    What you are saying is the intention of every chiropractor is to make harm, because they know upfront it wont work and will harm. Which is absurd. Action of chiropractor is a mean to correct imbalance in the body. Most of the time it works, sometimes not. I would call it side effect, which any evidence-based pill has also.
    - xvedejas 6y ago
      No, they harm people because of what they don't know and don't understand. Get it.
      - Dolores12 6y ago
        >they harm people because of what they don't know and don't understand It is your belief and only yours. Get it.
        jasdine817 6y ago
        It was created by a conman and has very flakey medical basis. I suggest reading up on it.
    - shawnz 6y ago
      The intention of every chiropractor is to conduct chiropractic treatments in exchange for money, not to willfully make harm. The problem is that there is no expectation for a chiropractic treatment to be effective in solving any problem, since chiropractic is not evidence based. However there is evidence to show that there are significant risks of injury to undergoing chiropractic treatments.
  - devlopr 6y ago
    Do you recommend these treatments? Acupuncture, massage, biofeedback therapy, laser therapy, electrical nerve stimulation and other nonsurgical spine treatments

tnel77 6y ago

Feels good to talk down to people. Good on you for showing this person that degrees are stupid and science is a sham.

whoooooo123 6y ago
That's not what he said. Chiropractic is a sham because it isn't science; the scientific method fails to show evidence that chiropractic treatments are effective. "If alternative medicine worked it would be called 'medicine'"
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  Not disagreeing about chiropractors but... > "If alternative medicine worked it would be called 'medicine'" This seems a bit simplistic. There is some scope for exploration of new ideas in medicine, and many ideas may go untested until after they see adoption in the community. They then might go through a double blinded trial (or several) that doesn't reveal any benefit beyond placebo, but even then, it's worth noting that some placebos work better than others, and likely placebos work differently for each individual. So for something like pain, which can be controlled somewhat by psychological intervention, a better placebo could have merit. But also, it could be found that some 'alternative medicines' supported by anecdata become scientifically validated interventions. Not saying that unproven interventions should be thrust upon naive patients, but there are many willing and desperate people who've tried mainstream therapies without success
  - yarcob 6y ago
    > desperate people who've tried mainstream therapies without success It would be wonderful if we could help desperate people without lying about the expected outcome of alternative treatment. I don't think anybody will complain if you say something like "maybe you will find this medidation technique makes it easier to deal with your pain". The problem is when people say "This technique will cure your pain. You only need to give me 5000€. Also, don't bother continuing with chemo, it just interferes with your natural healing powers."

yarcob 6y ago

> I don't require any evidence, if given practitioner helps me with my problem, while traditional ones can't. Let's say you wake up with back pain, and there's nothing obviously wrong with your spine. You can go to a physical therapist, and they will check your spine and muscles, move your body, tell you to do some exercises to improve your posture. There is no clear diagnosis beyond some muscle tension and no immediate relief, and you are disappointed, and when the pain goes away on its own in a few days you think visiting the therapist was pointless. You tell your friends how pointless traditional medicine is. Or you visit a chiropracter. He tells you a very satisfying diagnosis, promises to heal you, and makes a few movements that feel surprising. You are impressed. After a few days the pain is completely gone! You are stoked! This person healed you! You don't need evidence from scientific trials, because you experienced the power of alternative medicine yourself!! You tell all your friends how you were healed by this persons magic hands! Of course, without any treatment at all, the pain would also have gone away after a few days. This is why we need evidence based medicine. (And this of course applies to traditional medicine as well -- just because real doctors went to university doesn't make them immune to this problems. There are plenty of doctors who prescribe inefficient treatments.)

Chrisoaks 6y ago
> Of course, without any treatment at all, the pain would also have gone away after a few days. And if you struggle for years with chronic back problems and doctors don't really have an answer except to prescribe addictive painkillers and then you see a chiro and everything is cleared up in a couple days? Telling me that's a coincidence is just gaslighting. Sorry, I have no clue what confluence of political/cultural forces have led to the inability of science to figure out how/why this stuff works. Maybe in another 40 years. Good luck!
- vharuck 6y ago
  "Do you know what they call 'alternative medicine' that's been proved to work? Medicine." - Tim Minchin
- yarcob 6y ago
  Scientific studies have shown that the placebo effect is very real. You may think that a placebo could never help with your back pain, but I see no reason why a random person on the internet should be immune to the placebo effect.