6 ms·

I just want to underscore: Chiropractic is a pseudoscience and injures more people than it helps. I have heard too many stories of injuries and paralysis. It's

I just want to underscore: Chiropractic is a pseudoscience and injures more people than it helps. I have heard too many stories of injuries and paralysis. It's a huge shame that our society allows these frauds to practice and advertize the whole sham as a respectable profession. It is not evidence-based, it's a total sham.

titzer 6y ago
A lot of Chiropractic practice is about regaining and preserving good posture and many places employ actual physical therapists and massage therapists. It's true they put too much stock in the spine being the root all ailments, but it's not a total sham. They may not be medical doctors but they certainly do do evidence-based treatments and understand anatomy. From your comment it sounds like you've never been to one and fundamentally don't understand what they are about.
- davidivadavid 6y ago
  He's never been to one because it's a well-known scam, I would guess? They have no idea what "evidence-based" entails, and rely on the fact that neither do their clients ("Well, I went to a chiropractor and then felt no pain, so it works.").
  - happyconcepts 6y ago
    I thank each of you for your thoughts. And its my fault for not getting to the next part of my story yet. I believe there are good chiropractors despite my experience. I ended up finding a few who I believe have been able to reverse some the damage done prior. To me there are good and bad doctors Good and bad chiropractors Good and bad attorneys Good and bad financial advisors (I was one for a short period into 9/11) Shop around is my advice. To the OP topic I would use any financial assistance first to address my spinal cord injury as opposed to further developing the RTS game mod I am creating. And I guess my segment is no exception...there are good and bad homeless too. We gotta look deeper than the labels!
    - xvedejas 6y ago
      Choosing Chiropractic over evidence-based science is a bit like saying gambling on slots is a good way to make steady income. There are good slot machines and bad slot machines, just like there are good jobs and bad jobs; find the correct one and you'll be well off!
    - danielheath 6y ago
      As with most disciplines, the variation between practitioners is bigger than the variation between disciplines. If you have a practitioner who works for your problems, more power to you. However, if you're looking for someone new - do not search among chiropractors. They are - on average - much more likely to harm you than a psychotherapist or osteopath.
      - happyconcepts 6y ago
        Thank you very much for your comment. Osteopath just made my list.
    - shawnz 6y ago
      It might be true that there are some chiropractors who are also skilled physical therapists or massage therapists. But that's just a coincidence -- the name "chiropractor" does not imply those things. Chiropractic itself is not evidenced based in any way. Aside: I wish you the best in your life and hope you find justice/success/happiness.
      - happyconcepts 6y ago
        Thank you. I believe you are right. I was merely trying to identify the people in my story concisely and accurately. With a helicopter hovering 300 feet overhead. In the dark. To me its the nut of the homeless problem bias. I did not cry 'WOLF'. I said 'Chiropractor' and the rest is inference and in this case I believe mistaken judgement but I would be curious to know what others think.
        shawnz 6y ago
- deepspace 6y ago
  Nononono, it is a total scam. They do not do any kind of evidence based treatment. Please stop spouting this nonsense here.
Dolores12 6y ago
> I have heard too many stories of injuries and paralysis. There is a saying that every doctor has a graveyard. Chiropractors are no different. I don't require any evidence, if given practitioner helps me with my problem, while traditional ones can't. It amazes me that people always need someone to blame. How about taking responsibility for your own health and your body well-being?
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  > Chiropractors are no different. Chiropractors are not doctors, nor hold any other medical-based degree.
  - Dolores12 6y ago
    How does it relate to the fact they all do mistakes?
    - xvedejas 6y ago
      The actions that chiropractors use that end up injuring people were not mistakes. They're an intended part of the practice. Since it's not an evidence-based profession, that doesn't matter to them. It's not like someone went around and yanked a thousand spines and made sure nobody was paralyzed before chiropractic became a thing. No, there's not any body of evidence. On the contrary, modern mainstream medicine is based on which interventions tend to help people measurably.
      - Dolores12 6y ago
        What you are saying is the intention of every chiropractor is to make harm, because they know upfront it wont work and will harm. Which is absurd. Action of chiropractor is a mean to correct imbalance in the body. Most of the time it works, sometimes not. I would call it side effect, which any evidence-based pill has also.
        xvedejas 6y ago
throwawaysea 6y ago
So why does every NFL and MLB team have a chiropractor on staff and why does the US Olympic team also hire them specifically (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_chiropractic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_chiropractic)? If it’s a sham, why would these athletes and their organizations take a risk, especially when money is on the line? Also from what I am reading, serious injuries from chiropractic practice is very rare, and so your claim of “injures more than it helps” seems off, or at least misleading. It seems to me that your depiction of chiropractors isn’t the whole story. A practice may be framed as a pseudoscience but still be effective or worthwhile, perhaps?
- simonh 6y ago
  The whole point of scams is that money is on the line, otherwise it would just be random woo. In fact early Chiropractic was explicitly framed as a belief from irrefutable doctrine and rejecting inferential reasoning, essentially claiming defence as religious freedom, in order to exempt it from being regulated as practicing medicine without a license. Most Chiropractors nowadays do incorporate a degree of scientific reasoning and evidence into their practice, but personally it's not clear to me to what extent this is genuine or just adopting the terminology to paper over the holistic wellness metaphysics claptrap with a veneer of respectability. Personally, I'd rather go to a real physiotherapist.
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  People will do anything to get an edge up on the competition, even if the 'anything' is something dubious (placebo effect). I don't think we should look to the NFL as a source of medical truth. They have long papered over the dangers over a career in the NFL and the ensuing long term damage. The NFL, MLB, and Olympic teams are not authorities on medical advice. Their usage of chiropractic should not give rise to its credibility.
- xvedejas 6y ago
  Massage may still feel worthwhile to the majority of people if it were also customary to drink a poison beforehand that makes 1% of customers deathly ill and just makes the other 99% feel a little weird. Most people will report "wow, that was a nice massage, and I definitely felt different afterwards", but how could you say there are any benefits beyond a simple massage, except perhaps a much heightened placebo effect? Chiropractic is risky, and strictly worse than massage or physical therapy. That's what you have to compare it with.
happyconcepts 6y ago
Thanks but I must disagree. Will you come with me awhile and let's look for the bigger fish here before pointing the finger? Are you aware that for the poor, as I sadly came to find out, the injury attorney is in charge? Just like a coach who calls the plays and decides which players to put on the field, the atty decides on which doctor chiro surgeon etc to send the victim to. The injury lawyer sent me to a chiropractor who has apparently been in business a long time. Let me ask you: of all those stories you've heard of injury and paralysis by chiropractors...how many of them resulted from car accidents or other cases where the victim is 'sent' to the chiropractor as opposed to 'choosing' them? I have met many over these past years who were car accident victims and at least anecdotally it seems like I am not much of an edge case in this specific regard. I am not trying to argue with you. I guess I am thinking about what you said and I am trying to point out that mere cash payments to homeless are pointless if there are not other changes to these systemic frauds that exploit the poor, the weak, the homeless.
- xvedejas 6y ago
  I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Chiropractic is a scam and I'm sorry that it has such an impact on the poor. I'd call this an obvious systemic societal problem that we do this. Car wreck injuries should be met with a physical therapist at the very least, and no less.
- xmprt 6y ago
  I'm not sure I follow. The parent commenter isn't pointing any fingers or saying it's your fault that you were sent to a chiropractor. Simply that it's a bad idea to go to one in general if you do have a choice.
  - happyconcepts 6y ago
    But I didnt have a choice so this repetitive noise about chiropractors did an excellent job of drowning my signal about homeless and payments. Do you see how vigorously he is pushing this view against chiropractors and he is pushing it here in my comments?

titzer 6y ago

A lot of Chiropractic practice is about regaining and preserving good posture and many places employ actual physical therapists and massage therapists. It's true they put too much stock in the spine being the root all ailments, but it's not a total sham. They may not be medical doctors but they certainly do do evidence-based treatments and understand anatomy. From your comment it sounds like you've never been to one and fundamentally don't understand what they are about.

davidivadavid 6y ago
He's never been to one because it's a well-known scam, I would guess? They have no idea what "evidence-based" entails, and rely on the fact that neither do their clients ("Well, I went to a chiropractor and then felt no pain, so it works.").
- happyconcepts 6y ago
  I thank each of you for your thoughts. And its my fault for not getting to the next part of my story yet. I believe there are good chiropractors despite my experience. I ended up finding a few who I believe have been able to reverse some the damage done prior. To me there are good and bad doctors Good and bad chiropractors Good and bad attorneys Good and bad financial advisors (I was one for a short period into 9/11) Shop around is my advice. To the OP topic I would use any financial assistance first to address my spinal cord injury as opposed to further developing the RTS game mod I am creating. And I guess my segment is no exception...there are good and bad homeless too. We gotta look deeper than the labels!
  - xvedejas 6y ago
    Choosing Chiropractic over evidence-based science is a bit like saying gambling on slots is a good way to make steady income. There are good slot machines and bad slot machines, just like there are good jobs and bad jobs; find the correct one and you'll be well off!
  - danielheath 6y ago
    As with most disciplines, the variation between practitioners is bigger than the variation between disciplines. If you have a practitioner who works for your problems, more power to you. However, if you're looking for someone new - do not search among chiropractors. They are - on average - much more likely to harm you than a psychotherapist or osteopath.
    - happyconcepts 6y ago
      Thank you very much for your comment. Osteopath just made my list.
  - shawnz 6y ago
    It might be true that there are some chiropractors who are also skilled physical therapists or massage therapists. But that's just a coincidence -- the name "chiropractor" does not imply those things. Chiropractic itself is not evidenced based in any way. Aside: I wish you the best in your life and hope you find justice/success/happiness.
    - happyconcepts 6y ago
      Thank you. I believe you are right. I was merely trying to identify the people in my story concisely and accurately. With a helicopter hovering 300 feet overhead. In the dark. To me its the nut of the homeless problem bias. I did not cry 'WOLF'. I said 'Chiropractor' and the rest is inference and in this case I believe mistaken judgement but I would be curious to know what others think.
      - shawnz 6y ago
deepspace 6y ago
Nononono, it is a total scam. They do not do any kind of evidence based treatment. Please stop spouting this nonsense here.

Dolores12 6y ago

> I have heard too many stories of injuries and paralysis. There is a saying that every doctor has a graveyard. Chiropractors are no different. I don't require any evidence, if given practitioner helps me with my problem, while traditional ones can't. It amazes me that people always need someone to blame. How about taking responsibility for your own health and your body well-being?

tomnipotent 6y ago
> Chiropractors are no different. Chiropractors are not doctors, nor hold any other medical-based degree.
- Dolores12 6y ago
  How does it relate to the fact they all do mistakes?
  - xvedejas 6y ago
    The actions that chiropractors use that end up injuring people were not mistakes. They're an intended part of the practice. Since it's not an evidence-based profession, that doesn't matter to them. It's not like someone went around and yanked a thousand spines and made sure nobody was paralyzed before chiropractic became a thing. No, there's not any body of evidence. On the contrary, modern mainstream medicine is based on which interventions tend to help people measurably.
    - Dolores12 6y ago
      What you are saying is the intention of every chiropractor is to make harm, because they know upfront it wont work and will harm. Which is absurd. Action of chiropractor is a mean to correct imbalance in the body. Most of the time it works, sometimes not. I would call it side effect, which any evidence-based pill has also.
      - xvedejas 6y ago

throwawaysea 6y ago

So why does every NFL and MLB team have a chiropractor on staff and why does the US Olympic team also hire them specifically (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_chiropractic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_chiropractic)? If it’s a sham, why would these athletes and their organizations take a risk, especially when money is on the line? Also from what I am reading, serious injuries from chiropractic practice is very rare, and so your claim of “injures more than it helps” seems off, or at least misleading. It seems to me that your depiction of chiropractors isn’t the whole story. A practice may be framed as a pseudoscience but still be effective or worthwhile, perhaps?

simonh 6y ago
The whole point of scams is that money is on the line, otherwise it would just be random woo. In fact early Chiropractic was explicitly framed as a belief from irrefutable doctrine and rejecting inferential reasoning, essentially claiming defence as religious freedom, in order to exempt it from being regulated as practicing medicine without a license. Most Chiropractors nowadays do incorporate a degree of scientific reasoning and evidence into their practice, but personally it's not clear to me to what extent this is genuine or just adopting the terminology to paper over the holistic wellness metaphysics claptrap with a veneer of respectability. Personally, I'd rather go to a real physiotherapist.
JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
People will do anything to get an edge up on the competition, even if the 'anything' is something dubious (placebo effect). I don't think we should look to the NFL as a source of medical truth. They have long papered over the dangers over a career in the NFL and the ensuing long term damage. The NFL, MLB, and Olympic teams are not authorities on medical advice. Their usage of chiropractic should not give rise to its credibility.
xvedejas 6y ago
Massage may still feel worthwhile to the majority of people if it were also customary to drink a poison beforehand that makes 1% of customers deathly ill and just makes the other 99% feel a little weird. Most people will report "wow, that was a nice massage, and I definitely felt different afterwards", but how could you say there are any benefits beyond a simple massage, except perhaps a much heightened placebo effect? Chiropractic is risky, and strictly worse than massage or physical therapy. That's what you have to compare it with.

happyconcepts 6y ago

Thanks but I must disagree. Will you come with me awhile and let's look for the bigger fish here before pointing the finger? Are you aware that for the poor, as I sadly came to find out, the injury attorney is in charge? Just like a coach who calls the plays and decides which players to put on the field, the atty decides on which doctor chiro surgeon etc to send the victim to. The injury lawyer sent me to a chiropractor who has apparently been in business a long time. Let me ask you: of all those stories you've heard of injury and paralysis by chiropractors...how many of them resulted from car accidents or other cases where the victim is 'sent' to the chiropractor as opposed to 'choosing' them? I have met many over these past years who were car accident victims and at least anecdotally it seems like I am not much of an edge case in this specific regard. I am not trying to argue with you. I guess I am thinking about what you said and I am trying to point out that mere cash payments to homeless are pointless if there are not other changes to these systemic frauds that exploit the poor, the weak, the homeless.

xvedejas 6y ago
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Chiropractic is a scam and I'm sorry that it has such an impact on the poor. I'd call this an obvious systemic societal problem that we do this. Car wreck injuries should be met with a physical therapist at the very least, and no less.
xmprt 6y ago
I'm not sure I follow. The parent commenter isn't pointing any fingers or saying it's your fault that you were sent to a chiropractor. Simply that it's a bad idea to go to one in general if you do have a choice.
- happyconcepts 6y ago
  But I didnt have a choice so this repetitive noise about chiropractors did an excellent job of drowning my signal about homeless and payments. Do you see how vigorously he is pushing this view against chiropractors and he is pushing it here in my comments?