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I used to have a rosy glass over democracy as I came from China. However, news like this really pissed me off. A lot of those representatives are not working fo

I used to have a rosy glass over democracy as I came from China. However, news like this really pissed me off. A lot of those representatives are not working for the people who voted them, but rather the big corporates or whichever lobby groups. How come lobbying is even legal in the first place? It's actually glorified bribery. Please forgive me if I'm being a bit cynical here.

seabee 15y ago
It's not at all cynical. The issue here is that influential people get listened to more than regular problem, especially those who will invite their congressman onto their personal yacht to discuss matters. However, if you hold a democracy as true to its ideals as possible, than the opinions of the ignorant are as prominent as the knowledgeable. (The media already promotes the ignorant heavily, but that's another issue...) Clearly this is not ideal if you don't have time to listen to everybody. Where do you draw the line? Obviously US-style lobbying is too much, but you don't want to go too far. And various forces will work against you if you try to iterate on this legislation until it works.
- HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
  It's not at all cynical. The issue here is that influential people get listened to Should be a period right there! How many people protesting this online will actually write their congressperson and complain? Lobbyists get listened to because they say something. It's hard for someone to hear you if you're silent!
jcampbell1 15y ago
Lobbyists are just advocates for a cause. It is illegal for lobbyists to pay bribes. It is pretty easy to undo this type of legislation. All you have to do is send a direct mail campaign against a few state senators with the title "Joe Sentator is turning your child into a criminal... Have you ever shared an online password? Joe thinks you deserve 1 year in jail." It would probably cost around $10k to roast a few state senators, and neutralize the music industry lobby. It's just that nobody really cares enough to spend the $10k.
- cygwin98 15y ago
  My issue with this approach is that those senators or whatever level of representatives won't be punished by doing so. A common technique I observed these years is that they will initially propose a shooting-for-moon bill/bylaws/regulations, then everyone gets concerned and asks them to undo it. They will tone down and pretend to listen to the public, but counter-argue with some "authoritative" proofs given by certain professors or whatever scholars/lawyers/domain experts (often bought out by the same lobby group), then they concede with lesser intrusive proposal but still achieve their hidden goal. They will always look calm and charming, that on the contrary makes the angry public look irrational and ignorant. Most of the time, they can get away as the winner. Even if they didn't pull it off, they didn't lose anything. It is like they are playing an "I'm not touching you" trick to the public. If you follow the recent Internet UBB issue in Canada, you will see how it pans out. Nobody in CRTC is going to resign for doing such a ploy.
- russell 15y ago
  >> It is illegal for lobbyists to pay bribes. In the US the bribes are in the form of campaign contributions. No money comes from the lobbyist, but if the legislator performs, contributions appear from various PACs (Political Action Committee) and corporations. With millions flowing to individual cmpaign committees, I despair that meaningful reform is impossible. Much legislation is written by lobbyists (or their clients) because the issues are too complex for legislators or their staffs to understand. Is anyone surprised that some clause favoring the client or inductry is burried in the hundreds of pages?

seabee 15y ago

It's not at all cynical. The issue here is that influential people get listened to more than regular problem, especially those who will invite their congressman onto their personal yacht to discuss matters. However, if you hold a democracy as true to its ideals as possible, than the opinions of the ignorant are as prominent as the knowledgeable. (The media already promotes the ignorant heavily, but that's another issue...) Clearly this is not ideal if you don't have time to listen to everybody. Where do you draw the line? Obviously US-style lobbying is too much, but you don't want to go too far. And various forces will work against you if you try to iterate on this legislation until it works.

HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
It's not at all cynical. The issue here is that influential people get listened to Should be a period right there! How many people protesting this online will actually write their congressperson and complain? Lobbyists get listened to because they say something. It's hard for someone to hear you if you're silent!

jcampbell1 15y ago

Lobbyists are just advocates for a cause. It is illegal for lobbyists to pay bribes. It is pretty easy to undo this type of legislation. All you have to do is send a direct mail campaign against a few state senators with the title "Joe Sentator is turning your child into a criminal... Have you ever shared an online password? Joe thinks you deserve 1 year in jail." It would probably cost around $10k to roast a few state senators, and neutralize the music industry lobby. It's just that nobody really cares enough to spend the $10k.

cygwin98 15y ago
My issue with this approach is that those senators or whatever level of representatives won't be punished by doing so. A common technique I observed these years is that they will initially propose a shooting-for-moon bill/bylaws/regulations, then everyone gets concerned and asks them to undo it. They will tone down and pretend to listen to the public, but counter-argue with some "authoritative" proofs given by certain professors or whatever scholars/lawyers/domain experts (often bought out by the same lobby group), then they concede with lesser intrusive proposal but still achieve their hidden goal. They will always look calm and charming, that on the contrary makes the angry public look irrational and ignorant. Most of the time, they can get away as the winner. Even if they didn't pull it off, they didn't lose anything. It is like they are playing an "I'm not touching you" trick to the public. If you follow the recent Internet UBB issue in Canada, you will see how it pans out. Nobody in CRTC is going to resign for doing such a ploy.
russell 15y ago
>> It is illegal for lobbyists to pay bribes. In the US the bribes are in the form of campaign contributions. No money comes from the lobbyist, but if the legislator performs, contributions appear from various PACs (Political Action Committee) and corporations. With millions flowing to individual cmpaign committees, I despair that meaningful reform is impossible. Much legislation is written by lobbyists (or their clients) because the issues are too complex for legislators or their staffs to understand. Is anyone surprised that some clause favoring the client or inductry is burried in the hundreds of pages?